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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2014 15:49:42 GMT -5
Thought you all might like it, esp Ruby
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Post by demetra on Jun 15, 2014 18:06:42 GMT -5
Thought you all might like it, esp Ruby To Klaus's credit, at least he didn't eat it.
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Post by crimmyj on Jun 15, 2014 18:11:20 GMT -5
I'm only up to The Cell. Could the member who recently used the word "postmodern" jump in here and assist with a clarification as to who wants to destroy the Other Side and why? Silas, who had the cure in his hand but wouldn't take it for 2,000 years, has been getting dribs and drabs of folks' blood leaking through the roof for some reason I can't ever remember. This somehow enhanced his psychic powers. He entombs Stefan all summer to take advantage of his identity but then shows up in Mystic Falls -- the day before school starts -- to look for the cure. Nadia somehow hooked up with Rebekah and Matt in Europe, and then shows up in Mystic Falls. Nadia and Gregor are Travelers. They do or do not want to foil Silas? Silas kills the mayor and compels everyone to look for Katherine who is now the cure. Damon tricks Katherine and forces her blood into dead Silas's mouth to make Silas human. Silas first couldn't care less if Amara dies, then is heartbroken to the point of carrying out her wishes to kill her, but doesn't, and Amara kills herself. Amara dies human; Silas crosses over to the Other Side. If the anchor, Amara, dies, the Other Side will disappear. Hence Bonnie's foreshadowing of the last scene of the whole season -- will it be a white light? Will it hurt? -- in her conversation with Jeremy. Quetsyah completes the spell to make Bonnie the anchor somehow only needing Elena to finish it. Cripes -- now I have to start my re-watch again. Is this for me to tackle? I will try, but parsing Season 5 SL is daunting...self-trepanation might be imminent. Silas wants to take the cure, but only when he knows he can destroy the other side. So he can then die without worrying about being trapped in some purgatory. He is assuming that Amara is already dead and since she is no supernatural at her presumed death (Qetsiyah gave Amara the cure then "killed her") she went whatever peaceful afterlife humans go to. Which I suppose supernaturals will also go to if there is no "other side" keeping them in limbo. Side note...why would we even think that? I mean that would have to assume all dead peeps meet in the afterlife regardless of deeds good or bad in life (ergo no heaven or hell, just a big ol dead man's party?). But anyway I digress...that is whole other discussion. Even though Silas wanted the cure, I am not sure that if he found Katherine right off the bat he would have drained her right then not until he knew he destroyed the otherside, he actually seemed too smart for that. The unknown factor for him was the details about what destroying the otherside would entail. Which was a brilliantly psychotic move on Qetsiyah's part to create an anchor and make it be Amara. Knowing that Silas would have to kill Amara to destroy the otherside but wouldn't be able to do that unless Amara took the cure. (Ok I'm nowhere close to helping explain and I already want to stab myself in the head! onward!) Here is a question...when Slias drained Katharine of the cure blood, that immediately caused rapid aging. When Amara drained Silas of cure blood there were no immediate repercussions. Is this because he is a witch and could keep any silly ish like aging happen to him? Or who cares, details schmetails?! Whatevs. I don't know if Silas never cared if Amara dies, at this point he knows she is the anchor so in order for him to die peacefully Amara needs to die. plus she wants to die. That can end up being a win win for Silas. The anchor swap is what screws that up royally which is why Qetsiyah was more than willing to do it. What is pisspoorly explained is how Markos crossing over was the impetus to destroy the fabric of the otherside, why wouldn't Qetsiyah's crossover have wreaked some havoc that would be similar? As for the travelers role in this clusterBEEP of a storyline, that is where this goes from controlled chaos to hot freakin mess. Nadia and Gregor were using each other to get to Katharine. Nadia for her own noble reasons (want my mommy), Gregor in order to keep track of Silas...Katharine being a doppleganger (who now was cured, how would the travelers have known that?) was important for what they wanted to accomplish? So the travelers want Silas to take the cure and die to the otherside, because he sucks, they hate witches, and he created that whole immortality spell and they just think that is gross. Do all travelers want this? Do all travelers follow Markos (certain plot moment points to NO) and knew of his ultimate plan? Then some sob story about witch magic an abomination because Markos is still all perturbed about the initial immortality spell...but not just that... witches also don't like travelers so they make hurricanadosunamifires happen whenever what? More than 2 travelers try to rent a condo together somewhere? So EVERYTHING MUST BE DESTROYED or something. We need Doppelganger blood because, screw them, they look like Silas and Amara...and we hate vampires because witches. What about Werewolves? Are travelers and werewolves buddies? I mean if travelers are up for destroying all vamps, that would totally make werewolves on Team Chanters. demetra , I am making this worse aren't I? *evil laugh* I fell into the rabbit hole, and now I am hungry. F this S, I need a taco.
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Post by demetra on Jun 15, 2014 19:48:21 GMT -5
Silas wants to take the cure, but only when he knows he can destroy the other side. So he can then die without worrying about being trapped in some purgatory...What is pisspoorly explained is how Markos crossing over was the impetus to destroy the fabric of the otherside, why wouldn't Qetsiyah's crossover have wreaked some havoc that would be similar?...So the travelers want Silas to take the cure and die to the otherside, because he sucks, they hate witches, and he created that whole immortality spell....F this S, I need a taco.[/quote] Thank you, crimmyj!! Those points were clarifying. Silas wants to get rid of the Other Side so he won't spend eternity in purgatory -- ah hah! Qetsiyah makes Amara the anchor so Silas won't destroy her. The Travelers hate the magic that created the immortality spell. But it is okay for them to hopscotch their way around death by jumping into the minds of others. It really does make no sense that Markos exiting the Other Side destabilizes it when Qetsiyah's exit didn't. Not to mention, why couldn't she get out when Elena and Jeremy killed Kol, and every vampire he ever sired crossed over at the same time? Hope you enjoyed dinner, I also had tacos and a rather delicious Marguerita. Next time you have a moment, do you think you could explain structuralism? I never really got that either. Many thanks again, Demetra
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Post by crimmyj on Jun 15, 2014 23:01:09 GMT -5
oh demetra I am so glad some of that made sense for you. Tacos and Blackberry Margaritas hit the spot! I didn't have enough tequila to tackle structuralism.
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Post by napoli on Jun 16, 2014 9:29:30 GMT -5
demetra and crimmyj even CD said in an interview that she hates writing about the mythology aspect so we can give her a big thank you for the HUGE mess of inconsistencies in s5. If you ask me she didn't just screw up the mythology part. There is one thing though that was explained. Q didn't destabilise the other side because she didn't come through the anchor. Q slipped through while Bonnie was doing the spell to save Jeremy. In 5x03 Q said to Stefan: 'I'm here because the Bennett witch lowered the veil.' Not that it explains everything about the travelers and the other side disintegrating. Although, in watching that part of 5x03 Q revealed that Silas didn't even know originally that the other side even existed. So if Silas believed Amara was dead and wanted to be her why didn't he just take the cure, kill himself and be at peace with her instead of laying there for 2000 years. Unless of course Silas wanted to be as vengeful as Q and try to get her back for killing Amara to begin with. TVD is like a merry-go-round without a stop button this season. You think you solve one thing but then another just pops up.
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Post by demetra on Jun 16, 2014 10:39:43 GMT -5
There is one thing though that was explained. Q didn't destabilise the other side because she didn't come through the anchor. Q slipped through while Bonnie was doing the spell to save Jeremy. In 5x03 Q said to Stefan: 'I'm here because the Bennett witch lowered the veil.' Not that it explains everything about the travelers and the other side disintegrating. Although, in watching that part of 5x03 Q revealed that Silas didn't even know originally that the other side even existed. So if Silas believed Amara was dead and wanted to be her why didn't he just take the cure, kill himself and be at peace with her instead of laying there for 2000 years. Unless of course Silas wanted to be as vengeful as Q and try to get her back for killing Amara to begin with. Ahah! Two more important details! Thank you, napoli. Also, good question about Silas. Seems to me the doppelgangers have been aligned along a spectrum: Silas (evil, ancient, original "sin") --- Stefan (bad and good cursed with a pure heart) --- Tom (good, human) Amara (human, ancient, misfortune of falling in love pre-wedlock with her lady's man) -- Katherine (old, manipulative, self-interested) -- Elena (good now struggling with bad, possibly because she fell in love across time with the wrong doppelganger)
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Post by demetra on Jun 16, 2014 19:58:11 GMT -5
Have continued on with Season Two of my re-watch. Elena has been kidnapped by Rose and Trevor, and Elijah's just made his first appearance. Elijah: Do you have [Katerina] in your possession? Rose: No, I have better. I have a doppelganger. Elijah: That's impossible, her family line ended with her, I know that for a fact. Rose: Your facts are wrong. Secondly, Elijah looks at and then snatches Elena's necklace from her neck. Remarkably, he doesn't say, what are you doing with Mom's necklace? Or What are you doing with Rebekah's necklace?
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Post by demetra on Jun 16, 2014 20:31:03 GMT -5
Season Two re-watch: Next episode. Katerina trapped in the tomb to Elena: My family, your true ancestors, they disowned me. My indiscretions were not tolerated at that time. I had a baby out of wedlock.
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Post by demetra on Jun 17, 2014 3:55:49 GMT -5
And another thing about that necklace: why doesn't it burn a hole in Stefan's chest every time he and Elena play shirts and skins? It's holding vervaine, isn't it? When Caroline, who has just transitioned, puts on the necklace Elena gave her, it brands itself to her skin.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 8:08:02 GMT -5
There is one thing though that was explained. Q didn't destabilise the other side because she didn't come through the anchor. Q slipped through while Bonnie was doing the spell to save Jeremy. In 5x03 Q said to Stefan: 'I'm here because the Bennett witch lowered the veil.' Not that it explains everything about the travelers and the other side disintegrating. Although, in watching that part of 5x03 Q revealed that Silas didn't even know originally that the other side even existed. So if Silas believed Amara was dead and wanted to be her why didn't he just take the cure, kill himself and be at peace with her instead of laying there for 2000 years. Unless of course Silas wanted to be as vengeful as Q and try to get her back for killing Amara to begin with. Ahah! Two more important details! Thank you, napoli. Also, good question about Silas. Seems to me the doppelgangers have been aligned along a spectrum: Silas (evil, ancient, original "sin") --- Stefan (bad and good cursed with a pure heart) --- Tom (good, human) Amara (human, ancient, misfortune of falling in love pre-wedlock with her lady's man) -- Katherine (old, manipulative, self-interested) -- Elena (good now struggling with bad, possibly because she fell in love across time with the wrong doppelganger) It's that last part that I'm struggling with. I wish that Tom Avery had been introduced a long time ago, before everyone got tired of the doppelganger storyline, because I'm starting to think that Elena might have been meant to be with a different doppelganger when Stefan came along. I seemed like Tom Avery was killed off as a way of rushing the point that doppelgangers aren't necessarily destined to be together. It would have been less harsh, though, if Tom had been introduced earlier in the series and been alive long enough for us to see if a relationship between him and Elena would have worked out. Sure he was a little attracted to Caroline, but she cared more about Stefan, and Tom never had a chance to meet Elena. I know that resurrections are impossible, but if there is one character I want to see alive and well...forget Damon, I want to see Tom Avery. Too bad we saw him eating human food. Otherwise it could be rationalized that he was a vampire all along and Enzo didn't really kill him.
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Post by deb on Jun 17, 2014 11:16:41 GMT -5
Ahah! Two more important details! Thank you, napoli. Also, good question about Silas. Seems to me the doppelgangers have been aligned along a spectrum: Silas (evil, ancient, original "sin") --- Stefan (bad and good cursed with a pure heart) --- Tom (good, human) Amara (human, ancient, misfortune of falling in love pre-wedlock with her lady's man) -- Katherine (old, manipulative, self-interested) -- Elena (good now struggling with bad, possibly because she fell in love across time with the wrong doppelganger) It's that last part that I'm struggling with. I wish that Tom Avery had been introduced a long time ago, before everyone got tired of the doppelganger storyline, because I'm starting to think that Elena might have been meant to be with a different doppelganger when Stefan came along. I seemed like Tom Avery was killed off as a way of rushing the point that doppelgangers aren't necessarily destined to be together. It would have been less harsh, though, if Tom had been introduced earlier in the series and been alive long enough for us to see if a relationship between him and Elena would have worked out. Sure he was a little attracted to Caroline, but she cared more about Stefan, and Tom never had a chance to meet Elena. I know that resurrections are impossible, but if there is one character I want to see alive and well...forget Damon, I want to see Tom Avery. Too bad we saw him eating human food. Otherwise it could be rationalized that he was a vampire all along and Enzo didn't really kill him. I agree, I loved Tom. I'm so sad he died. I think it would be a great addition to the story line because, it could show us if Elena would fall in love with him and be drawn to him, and it would be interesting to see what's more important to Elena: To have a normal human life, with children and a human boyfriend, or her love for the Salvatore brothers. Again, another rushed decision. The writers had many stories with good potential but they didn't use it properly. RIP Tom.
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Post by crimmyj on Jun 17, 2014 16:05:58 GMT -5
It's that last part that I'm struggling with. I wish that Tom Avery had been introduced a long time ago, before everyone got tired of the doppelganger storyline, because I'm starting to think that Elena might have been meant to be with a different doppelganger when Stefan came along. I seemed like Tom Avery was killed off as a way of rushing the point that doppelgangers aren't necessarily destined to be together. It would have been less harsh, though, if Tom had been introduced earlier in the series and been alive long enough for us to see if a relationship between him and Elena would have worked out. Sure he was a little attracted to Caroline, but she cared more about Stefan, and Tom never had a chance to meet Elena. I know that resurrections are impossible, but if there is one character I want to see alive and well...forget Damon, I want to see Tom Avery. Too bad we saw him eating human food. Otherwise it could be rationalized that he was a vampire all along and Enzo didn't really kill him. I agree, I loved Tom. I'm so sad he died. I think it would be a great addition to the story line because, it could show us if Elena would fall in love with him and be drawn to him, and it would be interesting to see what's more important to Elena: To have a normal human life, with children and a human boyfriend, or her love for the Salvatore brothers. Again, another rushed decision. The writers had many stories with good potential but they didn't use it properly. RIP Tom. Tom Avery + waffles = Epic love. I don't know if Elena would have stood a chance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 18:55:54 GMT -5
Tom Avery + waffles = Epic love. I don't know if Elena would have stood a chance. I wonder if Tom would have been into day drinking. He could have bonded with Alaric. Of course Tom seemed more like the type to go out and save people. Then again, who knows what he liked to do with his free time? You know, I see Delena and Klaroline shippers, along with Kol fans, petitioning and driving Julie Plec crazy until someone gives in. If I had the resources to petition Tom Avery back into existence, I would try it. I just don't know if it's worth it. These things tend to get screwed up when the writers feel pushed to do stuff.
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Post by demetra on Jun 17, 2014 21:10:32 GMT -5
Up to 2x15 in my summer break re-watch, The Dinner Party.I did notice a couple of things about Damon. 1) In the 1864 flashback: Stefan is luxuriating in bloodlust with four captive women. Damon interrupts, frees two, and then tells Stefan he's leaving. Stefan begs him to stay. I just realized that at that point Damon likely has already learned from Emily the story that Katherine has been imprisoned in the tomb, she did not die in the fire Yet he deliberately witholds that information from Stefan. And people is always accusing Stefan of being a liar. Ahah! Secondly, back in the moment, Damon shows up in the tomb with a pint of blood and two new outfits for Katherine, saying he only had time for a short trip shopping. Why couldn't he do us all a favour and go by the store and pick up Elena some new clothes after the fire during the three months she was living in his house? The first serious, the second just poking a little fun
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