Season 5x04: For Whom The Bell Tolls

[damonsgirl]

napoli
It's your point that Damon did it to take the easy way out, not mine. I have explained my reasons why I believe this to be not the case, so i'm not going to repeat it all again. You hate Damon, I know this because you have stated this many times across the board, so you will never see what I see in him and thats ok. We don't have to agree.
Damon is a flawed character as they all are, and he makes some bad decisions, but he also makes some awesome ones too. I don't believe he is intrinsically bad. Is he selfish at times? sure, Is selfishness behind every decision he makes? No, and that is my point.
Of course consequences need to be considered, but how do you consider consequences when you don't forsee there being any. Damons plan was to get Elena to turn on her humanity by being there for her and helping her come to terms with Jers death slowly, invoking the SB to force her into turning them back on was a safety net plan B, if plan A failed. Nobody expected the SB to be broken. As it happens, she never had to face her grief for Jer full on, because by the time her humanity came back, so was Jer.
And yes she killed someone while she was emotionless, but she got over that pretty quickly.
IMO all the characters act without thinking about the consequences, this is not reserved for Damon only.

[Slash]

Gonna chime in a little here.

I'm probably a monster. During the entire Bonnie memorial/send off/whatever, I had no feeling about it. In fact, I thought it was kind of stupid, not because it was Bonnie or it was her passing, but maybe because of how it was handled leading up to it, which is an entire other matter. Bonnie died to bring Jeremy back and with the way this show hammers away 'balance', people should have questioned a lot of stuff like Jeremy being back and Bonnie being gone. I guess they were content with believing something good finally happened to them and that Bonnie was indeed off with family. I was just shaking my head through most of the Bonnie stuff cause she's been going on this long telling Jeremy to lie for her, not to tell anyone she's dead, when it's been a risk to others (Silas was bound by her magic) and then to top it off, all of a sudden everyone needs Bonnie all at once and Jeremy has no other option to finally come clean 3-4 months later cause people just didn't put the pieces together. Even Damon, who is smarter then this, was only now getting it. When Jeremy told Damon Silas was back, Damon mentioned he was sealed up but Jeremy was sure of it and when it was confirmed, Damon never put Bonnie's absence together? Damon isn't stupid with knowing about Witches.

I also feel like the Damon-Jeremy scene was somewhat awkward, like something was missing in the grand scheme. We know Damon has watched over the Bennett family for a few gens, after the deal with Emily. In fact, this is never gone into detail beyond that but with the way Damon reacted to the news, I'd expect he was hurt because he watched her grow up during his protection and is probably one of the few Bennetts he actually got to know/interact with so she held a special spot for him in that 'task', despite the way he's acted at times (saying he'd throw her under the bus if it meant saving Elena, trying to kill her to get at Emily who cheated him; on the flip side, he did come up with a plan to get Klaus off her back and stayed behind to look for her on the island). So I guess I've always wanted to see more of that part of Damon's history with the Bennetts.

I hated the way Damon & Elena tip toed around *THAT* particular info with Stefan this episode, especially Elena. She goes down memory lane with him and all this junk and only before they're about to kiss, she reveals she's with Damon right now, Stefan's brother. Even without the memories, that's a f'd up thing to drop after you just brought up all this stuff. You're dating my brother after we're supposed to have had this amazing relationship? Yeah, get away from me. I like this Stefan though. Doesn't want anything to do with the 2 now and really, I like this. Damon couldn't walk away from his brother & Elena being together and when it finally happened, I was hoping for Stefan to be the one to man up and walk away completely (which he was telling Bekah) and now he's doing that. Damon hadn't even told Stefan about Elena and honestly, I don't know if that would have been better but it was great seeing the brothers be brothers. They could have avoided the mess of the triangle if they kept Stefan in the dark about it ever happening (which would have been wrong but still) but Elena just had to put that info out there. Eh.

Oh, and they really need to rework Nina's contract with a No-Crying clause. I can't stand when this girl cries. She tries too hard or something where it completely takes me out of what she's crying about and all I want to do is look away from the screen.

[napoli]

Oct 25, 2013 15:55:18 GMT -5 damonsgirl said:

napoli
It's your point that Damon did it to take the easy way out, not mine. I have explained my reasons why I believe this to be not the case, so i'm not going to repeat it all again. You hate Damon, I know this because you have stated this many times across the board, so you will never see what I see in him and thats ok. We don't have to agree.
Damon is a flawed character as they all are, and he makes some bad decisions, but he also makes some awesome ones too. I don't believe he is intrinsically bad. Is he selfish at times? sure, Is selfishness behind every decision he makes? No, and that is my point.
Of course consequences need to be considered, but how do you consider consequences when you don't forsee there being any. Damons plan was to get Elena to turn on her humanity by being there for her and helping her come to terms with Jers death slowly, invoking the SB to force her into turning them back on was a safety net plan B, if plan A failed. Nobody expected the SB to be broken. As it happens, she never had to face her grief for Jer full on, because by the time her humanity came back, so was Jer.
And yes she killed someone while she was emotionless, but she got over that pretty quickly.
IMO all the characters act without thinking about the consequences, this is not reserved for Damon only.

Then that's another point we disagree on because to me, Damon does always makes selfish decisions but as you said we're not going to change each others opinions.  Given his own experience with no humanity and given he witnessed Stefan's experience with no humanity Damon should have been able to deduce that having Elena turn off her humanity was not going to go well even if he couldn't foresee the exactly what was going to happen.

I don't hate Damon because he makes mistakes.  I hate Damon because he doesn't feel sorrow or remorse for those mistakes.  As he said in 4x23 'I'm not sorry for doing terrible things that hurt you' and he was saying this to Elena the woman he loves.  You recognise that Damon makes mistakes but Damon doesn't.

[Slash]

Oct 25, 2013 15:55:18 GMT -5 damonsgirl said:

IMO all the characters act without thinking about the consequences, this is not reserved for Damon only.

DING, DING, M*********ING DING.

Pretty much everyone acts with little foresight on what consequences will befall them or those surrounding them due to their choices/decisions.  In fact, it's so bad, it unintentionally makes quite a few of them look self-centered/selfish when they're presented as otherwise.

This is a failing of the show as a whole, not any one character.  They still present these characters as children who haven't grown up/learned from their mistakes.

[Ruby]

damonsgirl napoli

Sorry Im jumping in here late...looking at your posts and just want to make sure you guys are good.. If you guys wish to continue that specific convo or debate any other point remember you can take it to the debate thread =) Stefan and Damon Debates could go on forever lol

[damonsgirl]

Oct 25, 2013 16:12:38 GMT -5 Slash said:

Oct 25, 2013 15:55:18 GMT -5 damonsgirl said:

IMO all the characters act without thinking about the consequences, this is not reserved for Damon only.

DING, DING, M*********ING DING.

Pretty much everyone acts with little foresight on what consequences will befall them or those surrounding them due to their choices/decisions.  In fact, it's so bad, it unintentionally makes quite a few of them look self-centered/selfish when they're presented as otherwise.

This is a failing of the show as a whole, not any one character.  They still present these characters as children who haven't grown up/learned from their mistakes.

You put it so much better than I did, thanks.

[damonsgirl]

@ruby
I'm good thanks. I'm happy to take any discussion the debate thread, I suggested it several posts back although it wasn't my intention to create such a debate. Just trying to balance the discussion with an alternative POV.

[teppy1]

Paul Wesley was so perfect in last night episode, not to mention I am happy Stefan now can say the things he wouldn't before. I am happy he "broke up" with Elena and Damon. They do not deserve him right now. Caroline and Stefan were adorable, but please keep platonic. Well I take that back. I am not sure I want that. TBH I have always wanted them to just be platonic, but with this whole amnesia thing and Tyler being, well my least favorite paring for Caroline, I am warming up to it. Plus it will just annoy Elena --- "You did that all for Stefan?"--

The funeral was annoying but heart breaking at the same time.

Annoying because seriously Stefan should have been there memory or not. I get why he wasn't, but it was weird. Him and Bonnie were friends and I would have loved to see some closure like we got with the other characters with him. He has been there forher multiple times.It was also annoying because I truly believe that she will come back.

I had a love hate with the all the SE scenes, but I guess overall happy because I missed them so much.

[Slash]

Oct 25, 2013 18:05:50 GMT -5 teppy1 said:

Paul Wesley was so perfect in last night episode, not to mention I am happy Stefan now can say the things he wouldn't before. I am happy he "broke up" with Elena and Damon. They do not deserve him right now. Caroline and Stefan were adorable, but please keep platonic. Well I take that back. I am not sure I want that. TBH I have always wanted them to just be platonic, but with this whole amnesia thing and Tyler being, well my least favorite paring for Caroline, I am warming up to it. Plus it will just annoy Elena --- "You did that all for Stefan?"--

The funeral was annoying but heart breaking at the same time.

Annoying because seriously Stefan should have been there memory or not. I get why he wasn't, but it was weird. Him and Bonnie were friends and I would have loved to see some closure like we got with the other characters with him. He has been there forher multiple times.It was also annoying because I truly believe that she will come back.

I had a love hate with the all the SE scenes, but I guess overall happy because I missed them so much.

Honestly, for last night's episode, I want to say I'm more disgusted with Elena in the whole thing.  Damon was being brotherly with Stefan which was great to watch.  Stealing and wrecking a car, trying to get Stefan caught up on his history bit by bit and trying to get him back on the level with being a Vampire.  But Elena, who I obviously have a problem with, had to see herself in.  In fact, Damon didn't even explain her to Stefan while they were hanging out, whether for his own benefit or not, but she seemed offended that he didn't.  She just had to be known to Stefan (Ms. Selfish Manipulator) now that he was back after 3 months and although Damon is at fault for leaving Stefan unattended with her, she's really to blame for how she brought him back up to speed on who she was to him and her current situation (being with Damon).  This guy has had his mind wiped, has a clean slate and has enjoyed the day with his brother and Elena just wrecks all that cause she just has to let him know how special she is to him and that oddly enough, she's dating said brother have getting Stefan's hopes up after telling him they had this amazing thing.  So I really do want to see Katherine reintroduced to Stefan at this stage and for them to hit it off.  One, because I'd like to see Katherine with one of the brothers, and two, because Elena *LOATHES* Katherine.  It's the punch to the gut she needs.  The punch to the gut she DESERVES.  But kudos to him as well keeping control of the Ripper after getting out and even after losing his memory.  The latter more out of spite for the other 2 it seems which is great regardless.

And yes, I was bothered by Stefan's no-show.  I can see the 'reasoning' to it with no memory and his exit concerning Damon & Elena but it's the thought that counts.   Put the other 2 out of mind and just be there for someone, though you may not remember, who helped you and you did the same.  Once again though, that triangle is getting in the way of things.  It's actually petty in comparison that Stefan didn't show up solely on support cause he wanted to avoid the other 2 when he shared a close relationship with the girl too.  And we don't know whether or not she'll return (Tessa might be able to see to that when she finishes her business?).  I imagine if Stefan gets his memory back (or bits and pieces) before Bonnie's physical return, he'll pay a solitary visit to the spot.

I'm just hoping that with everything going on with Stefan and the recent blow up over the reintroduction of the info on Damon & Elena, Caroline stops her 'cheerleading' and instead gets on Elena's case about how she went about the whole thing and has gone about the whole 'triangle' in general up to this point.  That is, if she's not too busy with that worthless Tyler being back.

[Ruby]

Slash teppy1 although I did notice and it bothered stefan was not there but how do we even know he knew about it. Maybe he left before they went on and did it.

[Slash]

Nah, Elena's hate for Katherine is annoying to me too. Katherine will be Katherine. She's screwed everyone and although everyone deals with it their own way, Elena's "I'm going to kill her" approach is a complete WTF. Damon & Stefan are as messed up as they are because of her but they put up with her (they did try to kill her once though), with Damon even going out of his way at times to help her (cause he did love her). Jeremy has been killed by her and he did pretty well babysitting her/putting that behind him. Yeah, Katherine has wrecked Elena's life but the way she gets winded up at the mention of Katherine bugs me. Then again, I <3 Katherine and would personally drag Elena's soul to the depths of Hell so I'm not exactly a standard for a fair opinion.

Anywho, this episode still bugged me and I'm not sure if it's pertaining to Elena's character or the Writers. Elena has been beating herself up about Stefan suffering for 3 months and her rolling around in the sack with his brother. She finally gets him back for a day or two and she pushes him over the edge and away again? He's pissed at her now and doesn't want anything to do with her. Did she not have the foresight of what she was doing despite the past couple of episodes of her whining about being with Damon while Stefan was suffering? Now he's got no memory but since he's not suffering, physically, she can tug on his heart and have him be gone but still do the Damon thing with a clear mind? What the hell girl? Or is it simply because she's Elena and she knows he'll hang around/come back? Really, the Writers write her the opposite of what she should be and the way her interaction with him ended annoys me. She just had to make sure Stefan knew their history above all else (Damon was walking him through from the beginning and Elena jumped a century+ to get to her) despite it not serving much purpose now other than making him remember that she exists/was special to him and reintroducing a deep, mortal gash that was gone with the wipe that he wasn't with her anymore *&* that it was because of his brother, who she was with now. Secretly (now publicly after this posting), I'm hoping Stefan gets a neck snap in on her.

[Kiki]

i think damon wasn't much better than elena when he told stefan about the past. before elena came to the bar stefan summed up what damon had told him so far. so i was the ripper and i turned you into a vampire.... damon had no problem putting the guilt back on stefan knowing how much he suffered with it before but he wasn't man enough to tell him about his own guilt stealing his brother's girl and the never ending misery...
and this you turned me into a vampire talk is soooooo anoying. stefan saved damon's live back then!! if he'd still wanted to die he could have taken off his ring anytime. so all stefan did was giving the brother he loved so much a 2nd chance to choose

[Deleted]

So I watched the episode 4x and still don't know how to get my thoughts together. So I will give it a try anyways.

Episode 5x04 simply blew me away.
I like the oneliners of Stefan and Damon quite well, can't remember and put them all together, but it was the safe brother and fun brother stuff and how they repeated it throughout the episode.
Also liked Stefans: "You explained to me the entire day that I am a vampire, where is the problem...let me act like one now"
I bawled like a baby this episode during Bon's funeral. The words from Bon that were delivered by Jer and the way they did it, was really good. But I don't think Bon is lost forever. I think she will come back...after all they do need a witch. They can now feel what it is like not to have her hanging around and swooping in to save the day.
AND WAS I HAPPY TO SEE TYLER??? YES!!! YES!!!! YES!!! I am probably a minority, but I like Tyler and I love Forwood, for me up to now, they were the most stable couple on TVD. Ok Tyler was gone often for months, but that is part of his storyline, he is a werewolf, hybrid, pack leader and he feels that he has obligations. I don't doubt for one second that he doesn't love CAro. And it was good that he came for Bon's funeral. It is a pity that Stef wasn't there.
As much as I am intrigued by a match between Caro and Klaus, it isn't going to happen that soon if ever. And I don't want CAro in NO where everything is getting super dangerous between TO, the witches and Marcel and his minions.
I don't think Caro and Ty might last much longer though. The synopsis for next week said clearly "Caro will go from happy to heartbreak". So I assume hey will be done for good.
OMFG I have so much respect for PW when he plays bad, he is so scary. The scene when he bit Jesse was awesome. HE is such a good actor.
On a sidenote ... the guy who cheered and saluted in the bar...didn't he have 3 different roles meanwhile on tvd; I THINK HE LURED BONNIE IN SEASON ! AND KIDNAPPED HER AND IN SEASON 4 HE WAS ONE OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS...

I think if Klaus knew how his beloved Stefan is up to now, he would come running from NO and pack his Rippppaaahhhh in a suitcase and Caro with him and take them down to NO

I loved the scenes between Stef and CAro, their friendship is such a stable one. But then again Caro s my girl

I wonder what will happen when Stefan meets Katherine...

I thought Elena was very annoying this episode, her teasing of Stef and nearly letting him kiss her and then shoving in " I'm with Damon" in such a pressed way. Ad then all her whining and crying...it's too much for me. Oh I don't have clothes for the funeral bec I burned down the house...Bon is dead bec she wanted me to have my bro back" and her hysterical crying at the funeral just went on my nerves this time.
Imo Bon didn't save Jer only for Elena, but bec she couldn't protect him in the cave and had a guilty conscience and BECAUSE SHE LOVES JEREMY!!!
BUt of course for Elena it's all about her again. DUH!!!
Sometimes I would like to smack Elena on both cheeks and lock her up in a closet.

Speaking of Jeremy ... he is my TVD son and I love his character soo much. But isn't his character awesome!!!

I am worried for Mattie Blue Eyes, bec he is getting a storyline built up...that is not a good sign on TVD. Zach did a very good job playing the passenger in his body and Matt watching the recording.

Prof Frankenstein is one evil dude. I felt so sorry for Jesse. At first I didn't trust him and thought he kissed Caro bec he wanted to test if she was a vampire and that he might be a spy of evil Creepster Prof. But being a professor in TVD is never a good sign, makes me wonder all the more what skeletons Grayson Gibert had in his closet.

I am COUNTING THE DAYS TIL NEXT THURSDAY!!!
so those were my thoughts. Cheers

[Deleted]

I am not really a shipper in this love triangle, so that is maybe the reason why I can entirely enjoy this show over and over again
Guess I am Stelena by default, BUT the more I think about it...I hope Stefan doesn't get his full memory back and gets together with Katherine.
I like his new old dark side and on a sidenote I could swear that PW is getting hotter and hotter with every day.
Elena and Damon can ride off together in the sunset by all means. That is if Elena can make up her mind, but unfortunately she will go off the rails if Kat/Stef should rehappen. Remember how hot and bothered she went when Stef and Bex had an affair in season 4 again.
Either way Damon is the f*** one, with the universe against him and a fair weather girlfriend. She knew exactly what she was doing, when she tried to relight Stefs memory, she's not a 14 yr old girl anymore.
And she went on my nerves when she talked with Damon in the resto "Mr know it all, Mr I have it all undr control..."
Oh man she thinks she is so charming, when actually she is the biggest jerk in Mystic Falls...yet AGAIN!

[Slash]

This is why Elena is hard for me to like and a huge downer for the show, and she's the lead The heroine, the one we're supposed to get behind and cheer for. I've been cheering for some villains to ring her clock or for her life to be as miserable as possible but it's hard to get to any of that when the people that I do like or are interesting are the ones who put themselves in harm's way for her. Can't win in that situation.

And yeah, if Katherine sparks something with Stefan, you know Elena is going to rage. The girl just thinks everything is about her and the brothers can't enjoy themselves when they're not with her. Bekah was the first one (slept with Damon & Stefan) and we saw how Elena got when she got that news (she even tried to kill Bekah on 2-3 occasions) so you know she's going to rattle out some excuse to kill Katherine (now that it's within her means with Katherine being human) if she hooks up with Stefan (some petty 'Katherine is taking advantage of Stefan's memory loss' or some BS when we could just as well reason that it's destiny since Katherine is a doppelganger as well and we heard what Tessa said about the doppelgangers. Just because Elena is one doesn't mean she's Stefan's destined).