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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 12:17:28 GMT -5
You know, I've seen a lot of criticism of Damon about this. There are accusations that he couldn't cope with Elena' grief so took the easy way out for himself.
I disagree because he knew that forcing Elena to switch off her emotions/ humanity, she was switching off her love for him too. He would lose her but he put her first.
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 12:22:25 GMT -5
Damon tried to comfort Elena upstairs, he tried to talk her down. He told her he could help her, but she was just too far gone. He saw her in her full grief state and realised he couldn't help her, her brother was dead. Hence the bro conversation on the porch. He explained his point well to Stefan rather poignantly.
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Post by Ruby on Oct 25, 2013 12:23:59 GMT -5
You know, I've seen a lot of criticism of Damon about this. There are accusations that he couldn't cope with Elena' grief so took the easy way out for himself. I disagree because he knew that forcing Elena to switch off her emotions/ humanity, she was switching off her love for him too. He would lose her but he put her first. I don't think Damon knew how to deal with grief overall. When it came to him or to anyone especially Elena because he loves her so much. He's not comfortable or its a little overwhelming for him. So he himself is known to lash out and if he can't handle it for himself hoe could he handle it for anyone else. You see a big difference from then to yesterday's episode on how he handled Bonnie s death. He was able to cope and show support and comfort. I personally don't give Damon hate for turning off her humanity. Was it dumb of him? Yea and he even admits it after. |
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Post by napoli on Oct 25, 2013 12:39:15 GMT -5
Yep, I've seen this lots of times before, so what would Stefan have done? Not once did he offer up any help or alternative. He just criticized after the deed was done. If he thought he could have handled the situation better, then he should have done. The thing is people don't realize was I think Stefan was looking for Damon to comfort Elena and possibly use the sirebond to tell her it would be okay. Stefan didn't expect Damon to go to the extreme and have her shut it off and Damon handled it the best way he knew. Everyone knows Elena is Elena because of her compassion so no compassion leaves Elena being who? The b***y no humanity Elena that no one really liked. What Damon did was the equivalent of giving Elena a stiff drink only permanently! Being drunk or drugged out to avoid feelings is never the solution. Damon could have talked to Elena, hugged her as he did when she found out Bonnie died. Even if Elena was hysterical at the time because of the sire bond Damon had the power to simply tell Elena to calm down and not burn her house down and she would have no choice but to comply. Instead he ripped her humanity away because he instinctively takes the easy way out. It wasn't Stefan's place to comfort Elena because Damon was Elena's boyfriend at the time. |
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 13:35:30 GMT -5
The thing is people don't realize was I think Stefan was looking for Damon to comfort Elena and possibly use the sirebond to tell her it would be okay. Stefan didn't expect Damon to go to the extreme and have her shut it off and Damon handled it the best way he knew. Everyone knows Elena is Elena because of her compassion so no compassion leaves Elena being who? The b***y no humanity Elena that no one really liked. What Damon did was the equivalent of giving Elena a stiff drink only permanently! Being drunk or drugged out to avoid feelings is never the solution. Damon could have talked to Elena, hugged her as he did when she found out Bonnie died. Even if Elena was hysterical at the time because of the sire bond Damon had the power to simply tell Elena to calm down and not burn her house down and she would have no choice but to comply. Instead he ripped her humanity away because he instinctively takes the easy way out. It wasn't Stefan's place to comfort Elena because Damon was Elena's boyfriend at the time. Stefan has every right to comfort Elena as a close friend, and so has Caroline for that matter, regardless of who her boyfriend is!! I was asking how Stefan would have handled it? and why he did nothing? except for give his criticism after the event. But i'm always happy to discuss Damon and his motivations if you prefer, but perhaps this is not the appropriate thread.  |
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 13:37:18 GMT -5
And WTH is Kat? I missed her. Stefan is going to be fascinated by her.
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Post by napoli on Oct 25, 2013 13:46:54 GMT -5
What Damon did was the equivalent of giving Elena a stiff drink only permanently! Being drunk or drugged out to avoid feelings is never the solution. Damon could have talked to Elena, hugged her as he did when she found out Bonnie died. Even if Elena was hysterical at the time because of the sire bond Damon had the power to simply tell Elena to calm down and not burn her house down and she would have no choice but to comply. Instead he ripped her humanity away because he instinctively takes the easy way out. It wasn't Stefan's place to comfort Elena because Damon was Elena's boyfriend at the time. Stefan has every right to comfort Elena as a close friend, and so has Caroline for that matter, regardless of who her boyfriend is!! I was asking how Stefan would have handled it? and why he did nothing? except for give his criticism after the event. But i'm always happy to discuss Damon and his motivations if you prefer, but perhaps this is not the appropriate thread. Stefan would have talked to Elena as he did when Elena was upset when Alaric died. As Stefan did this episode when he was talking with Caroline over Bonnie's death. You talk to people when they are grieving. You comfort them. You hug them as Damon did this episode to both Jeremy and Elena over Bonnie's death. You don't give them a permanent high to put them in a perpetual state of non-feeling. Stefan could have tried to comfort Elena but it wasn't his place to do so because he wasn't her boyfriend at the time. Damon was right there so both Caroline and Stefan were waiting on him to help her because he is her boyfriend and he should know her well enough to help her but once Damon told Elena to turn it off there was nothing left that Stefan and Caroline could do. |
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 13:48:42 GMT -5
You know, I've seen a lot of criticism of Damon about this. There are accusations that he couldn't cope with Elena' grief so took the easy way out for himself. I disagree because he knew that forcing Elena to switch off her emotions/ humanity, she was switching off her love for him too. He would lose her but he put her first. I don't think Damon knew how to deal with grief overall. When it came to him or to anyone especially Elena because he loves her so much. He's not comfortable or its a little overwhelming for him. So he himself is known to lash out and if he can't handle it for himself hoe could he handle it for anyone else. You see a big difference from then to yesterday's episode on how he handled Bonnie s death. He was able to cope and show support and comfort. I personally don't give Damon hate for turning off her humanity. Was it dumb of him? Yea and he even admits it after. I totally agree with this assessment Ruby, I think your spot on. Damon handled the situation in the best way he could. At that point in time, he didn't have the tools to do much else. He pretty much admitted that he winged it and was hoping for the best. He had know idea that the SB would be broken and he wouldn't be able to get Elena to turn it back on. So in hindsight was it dumb? yep, was it selfish? no was it desperation? yes. Yesterdays EP just shows how far Damon has changed since then and how he is learning to cope with his and others emotions. |
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Post by Ruby on Oct 25, 2013 13:49:49 GMT -5
napoli damonsgirl my unpopular opinion is that Stefan and Caroline both wanted Damon to step in to use the sire bond but not to the extreme of turning off her humanity but keeping her at bay i guess. they knew he was the only one who could most likely reach her in her moment of grief. because you are right Stefan could had comforted her as a friend and he sort of did earlier that day..
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 13:57:13 GMT -5
Stefan has every right to comfort Elena as a close friend, and so has Caroline for that matter, regardless of who her boyfriend is!! I was asking how Stefan would have handled it? and why he did nothing? except for give his criticism after the event. But i'm always happy to discuss Damon and his motivations if you prefer, but perhaps this is not the appropriate thread. Stefan would have talked to Elena as he did when Elena was upset when Alaric died. As Stefan did this episode when he was talking with Caroline over Bonnie's death. You talk to people when they are grieving. You comfort them. You hug them as Damon did this episode to both Jeremy and Elena over Bonnie's death. You don't give them a permanent high to put them in a perpetual state of non-feeling. Stefan could have tried to comfort Elena but it wasn't his place to do so because he wasn't her boyfriend at the time. Damon was right there so both Caroline and Stefan were waiting on him to help her because he is her boyfriend and he should know her well enough to help her but once Damon told Elena to turn it off there was nothing left that Stefan and Caroline could do. Stefan and Caroline had hours to talk and hug Elena before Damon arrived home, instead they let her wander around the house in a delusional fantasy land even though Jers body was stinking the house out. |
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Post by napoli on Oct 25, 2013 14:01:17 GMT -5
napoli damonsgirl my unpopular opinion is that Stefan and Caroline both wanted Damon to step in to use the sire bond but not to the extreme of turning off her humanity but keeping her at bay i guess. they knew he was the only one who could most likely reach her in her moment of grief. because you are right Stefan could had comforted her as a friend and he sort of did earlier that day.. I agree with you Ruby. Stefan wanted Damon to use the s/b to calm her down, tell her it would be okay and not burn the house down and with the sire bond saying all of these things would have worked. When Stefan comforted Elena earlier Damon wasn't around. If Stefan had interfered and calmed her down, as he did in 4x21 when Elena got her humanity back, Stefan just would have gotten crapped on because he interfered and overstepped since Damon was there as Stefan was crapped on in 4x21. When Stefan interferes he's wrong, when he doesn't interfere he's wrong. |
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 14:03:29 GMT -5
napoli damonsgirl my unpopular opinion is that Stefan and Caroline both wanted Damon to step in to use the sire bond but not to the extreme of turning off her humanity but keeping her at bay i guess. they knew he was the only one who could most likely reach her in her moment of grief. because you are right Stefan could had comforted her as a friend and he sort of did earlier that day.. Your probably right, I seem to remember Caroline and Stefan having a conversation about waiting for Damon to come and use the sire bond, I don't remember the specifics. Matt managed to reach out to her and get her to listen. |
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Post by napoli on Oct 25, 2013 14:08:53 GMT -5
Stefan would have talked to Elena as he did when Elena was upset when Alaric died. As Stefan did this episode when he was talking with Caroline over Bonnie's death. You talk to people when they are grieving. You comfort them. You hug them as Damon did this episode to both Jeremy and Elena over Bonnie's death. You don't give them a permanent high to put them in a perpetual state of non-feeling. Stefan could have tried to comfort Elena but it wasn't his place to do so because he wasn't her boyfriend at the time. Damon was right there so both Caroline and Stefan were waiting on him to help her because he is her boyfriend and he should know her well enough to help her but once Damon told Elena to turn it off there was nothing left that Stefan and Caroline could do. Stefan and Caroline had hours to talk and hug Elena before Damon arrived home, instead they let her wander around the house in a delusional fantasy land even though Jers body was stinking the house out. So because her grief was so deep you don't think talking would have worked? It takes time to help people cope. It's not a one shot deal. Elena figured it out that Jer was dead all on her own. Were they supposed to hit her over the head? Elena had hope that Bonnie could help Jer and given the nature of the show and that Jer is in fact back it's not out of the realm of possibility. Once Elena heard Bonnie's (Silas') plan then she realised there was no hope and accepted that her brother is gone. I'm not sure why you are blaming Caroline and Stefan for this progression of events. |
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 14:39:02 GMT -5
Stefan and Caroline had hours to talk and hug Elena before Damon arrived home, instead they let her wander around the house in a delusional fantasy land even though Jers body was stinking the house out. So because her grief was so deep you don't think talking would have worked? It takes time to help people cope. It's not a one shot deal. Elena figured it out that Jer was dead all on her own. Were they supposed to hit her over the head? Elena had hope that Bonnie could help Jer and given the nature of the show and that Jer is in fact back it's not out of the realm of possibility. Once Elena heard Bonnie's (Silas') plan then she realised there was no hope and accepted that her brother is gone. I'm not sure why you are blaming Caroline and Stefan for this progression of events. I don't believe I have said this was Caroline and Stefans fault, I have merely pointed out that Stefan and Caroline had opportunities to help Elena and failed, as did Damon in the long run. They all wanted to help Elena, they all tried to help Elena by talking etc, but they couldn't. Do I think Damon did the right thing? no, Did Stefan and Caroline achieve anything? no, do I think Damon acted with the best of intentions? yes. And this is what matters to me. Both Damon and Stefan felt that Elena wouldn't survive the loss of her brother when they were on the Island. Lets not forget, Elena feels grief so much more than anyone else!!!! She was acting like a crazy person, she wanted to burn her house down. I think the boys were scared she would take a walk in the sun without her daylight ring. Damon didn't believe in himself enough to be able to help her, he didn't believe he could be of any comfort to her in the face of losing her brother so he did what he knew was a guaranteed way of helping her survive this. No emotion= no feelings=no grief. |
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Post by napoli on Oct 25, 2013 15:20:34 GMT -5
So because her grief was so deep you don't think talking would have worked? It takes time to help people cope. It's not a one shot deal. Elena figured it out that Jer was dead all on her own. Were they supposed to hit her over the head? Elena had hope that Bonnie could help Jer and given the nature of the show and that Jer is in fact back it's not out of the realm of possibility. Once Elena heard Bonnie's (Silas') plan then she realised there was no hope and accepted that her brother is gone. I'm not sure why you are blaming Caroline and Stefan for this progression of events. I don't believe I have said this was Caroline and Stefans fault, I have merely pointed out that Stefan and Caroline had opportunities to help Elena and failed, as did Damon in the long run. They all wanted to help Elena, they all tried to help Elena by talking etc, but they couldn't. Do I think Damon did the right thing? no, Did Stefan and Caroline achieve anything? no, do I think Damon acted with the best of intentions? yes. And this is what matters to me. Both Damon and Stefan felt that Elena wouldn't survive the loss of her brother when they were on the Island. Lets not forget, Elena feels grief so much more than anyone else!!!! She was acting like a crazy person, she wanted to burn her house down. I think the boys were scared she would take a walk in the sun without her daylight ring. Damon didn't believe in himself enough to be able to help her, he didn't believe he could be of any comfort to her in the face of losing her brother so he did what he knew was a guaranteed way of helping her survive this. No emotion= no feelings=no grief. I agree that Damon was trying to help Elena in that moment but as you already mentioned he failed her causing more grief in the long run. The point was that Damon tries to take the easy way out and even if his intentions are good he needs to consider the consequences and not just a band-aid solution. |
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Well if you do somehow get a chance to watch it later, let me know what you think. 
Hope you're doing well. 