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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 23, 2013 19:48:53 GMT -5
Anna, Ruby, katvolley13Hey girls, just as the writers have painted Stefan & Damon as "hero/anti-hero" with black and white strokes. They painted Katherine & Elena as " b***/anti-b***. One totally self centered....the other totally self sacrificing. Now with the use of parallel SL's CD.& co. are starting to blur the lines. Elena's becoming more selfish and Katherine's starting to think of others (going back to save Jeremy) I know its taken 5 yrs to get to what I see is the point of the series. (It's about "choices" and nothing is "black and white") The "choices" part has been with us the entire series, choices have consequences....we've seen this theme again and again. This season through the use of parallel SL's...the writers are going to gray things up a bit. We'll see that all 4 characters share the same traits, but through their "choices" they decide how to express them.  Anna, luck on your tests! This has been what is confusing and I would be ok if I felt Elena's transition was her choice but the sire bond and blood sharing and turning her humanity off and I have always seen elena as someone who does know who she is and what she stands for as well as what she wants. She may get a little confused but normally she thinks things through and makes a decision but season four it was like she went nuts and I think even Katherine said I never turned it off which who knows if that is true. She definitely numbed herself to human emotion and empathy which is different and obviously dangerous but she owns who she is. I think I just want to see elena make sense again |
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shoe20
Team Stefan
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Post by shoe20 on Oct 23, 2013 20:18:29 GMT -5
Anna, Ruby, katvolley13Hey girls, just as the writers have painted Stefan & Damon as "hero/anti-hero" with black and white strokes. They painted Katherine & Elena as " b***/anti-b***. One totally self centered....the other totally self sacrificing. Now with the use of parallel SL's CD.& co. are starting to blur the lines. Elena's becoming more selfish and Katherine's starting to think of others (going back to save Jeremy) I know its taken 5 yrs to get to what I see is the point of the series. (It's about "choices" and nothing is "black and white") The "choices" part has been with us the entire series, choices have consequences....we've seen this theme again and again. This season through the use of parallel SL's...the writers are going to gray things up a bit. We'll see that all 4 characters share the same traits, but through their "choices" they decide how to express them. Anna, luck on your tests! This has been what is confusing and I would be ok if I felt Elena's transition was her choice but the sire bond and blood sharing and turning her humanity off and I have always seen elena as someone who does know who she is and what she stands for as well as what she wants. She may get a little confused but normally she thinks things through and makes a decision but season four it was like she went nuts and I think even Katherine said I never turned it off which who knows if that is true. She definitely numbed herself to human emotion and empathy which is different and obviously dangerous but she owns who she is. I think I just want to see elena make sense again I hear what your saying and agree. The writers basically destroyed human Elenas character along with SE in season 4. They went above and beyond to prove Elena died on the bridge in the finale of S3. S4 started with her totally confused and not being able to turn to Stefan because of the blood/ripper problem....then the SB.....then Jeremys death.....then no humanity..... finally in the last Ep with some of her emotions back she made her choice of Damon. That was the writers goal and the place they wanted to get to......It's how they got her there that buggs me, not her choice. Think of S5 as a road Elena has to travel to get back from rock bottom....That's what I do. =) Don't forget Elena didn't turn off her humanity by choice. |
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Post by stelena4ever on Oct 24, 2013 9:52:14 GMT -5
This has been what is confusing and I would be ok if I felt Elena's transition was her choice but the sire bond and blood sharing and turning her humanity off and I have always seen elena as someone who does know who she is and what she stands for as well as what she wants. She may get a little confused but normally she thinks things through and makes a decision but season four it was like she went nuts and I think even Katherine said I never turned it off which who knows if that is true. She definitely numbed herself to human emotion and empathy which is different and obviously dangerous but she owns who she is. I think I just want to see elena make sense again I hear what your saying and agree. The writers basically destroyed human Elenas character along with SE in season 4. They went above and beyond to prove Elena died on the bridge in the finale of S3. S4 started with her totally confused and not being able to turn to Stefan because of the blood/ripper problem....then the SB.....then Jeremys death.....then no humanity..... finally in the last Ep with some of her emotions back she made her choice of Damon. That was the writers goal and the place they wanted to get to......It's how they got her there that buggs me, not her choice. Think of S5 as a road Elena has to travel to get back from rock bottom....That's what I do. =) Don't forget Elena didn't turn off her humanity by choice. That is exactly right shoe20, Elena did not turn her humanity off by choice. Damon made her. Which is the difference between Damon and Stefan, and why Stefan is the better choice. Damon always takes the easy way out. Instead of being their for the woman he supposedly loves he takes her feelings away from her so he doesn't have to feel either, whereas Stefan would have helped her get through the loss of Jeremy. Been with her through the roller coaster of emotions. |
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shoe20
Team Stefan
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Post by shoe20 on Oct 24, 2013 10:03:19 GMT -5
stelena4ever, yes! I know there was an outcry from posters when Damon force her to "turn it off", that Stefan wanted and ask Damon to help.......but Damon "chose" the easy way out....rather that deal with Elena's justified emotions over the lose of her brother, he simply pushed it aside with the SB. Stefan's reaction was clear as it was happening and on the porch after.....that wouldn't have been HIS "choice".
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Post by napoli on Oct 24, 2013 10:28:12 GMT -5
katvolley13 shoe20 stelena4ever Your posts describe exactly how I feel about Elena and the s/b. Had we been shown a different Elena prior to her becoming a vamp then it would have been plausible that her post vamp behaviour was part of the norm for her. Yet the story line supports that Elena was always compassionate, caring and thinks things through first even before her parents died. Through her diary entries we were privy to Elena's thoughts behind her actions. In s4 as she wrote in her journal we saw how being a vampire became a struggle for her where she even became suicidal because she couldn't reconcile her feelings of trusting Damon and his philosophies so wholeheartedly when those same beliefs violate who Elena really is. Then the writing in the diary stopped and it's gone with the rest of the house. deb mentioned that we saw Elena start writing in her journal again and I would love for that to happen so we can get finally get some perspective into Elena's current motives. At the same time though the sire bond is still a brilliant way to get Elena to a point where she does love Damon. Through the s/b Damon did make her feel alive and challenged her. Elena doesn't know how the s/b affected her so it's all real for her. It allows the writers to answer the question brought up in 3x22: What if Damon and Elena had met first? We saw how Damon did in fact meet Elena first but he compelled this memory from her. When Damon asked Elena in 4x01 if it would have made a difference, Elena doesn't answer. Damon then says 'I didn't think so.' Elena made her choice in 3x22 but nothing changes the fact that she was with Stefan first. What better way then to get Stefan out of the way then the s/b? Through the s/b her feelings and recollections of Stefan '...are barely a memory.' Then Stefan is thrown at the bottom of a quarry without anyone knowing and now he has no memories. Short of writing Stefan off the show by having his character moving to a yurt somewhere, we're basically getting the Damon and Elena story as though they met first.
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Post by stelena4ever on Oct 24, 2013 10:59:27 GMT -5
katvolley13 shoe20 stelena4ever Your posts describe exactly how I feel about Elena and the s/b. Had we been shown a different Elena prior to her becoming a vamp then it would have been plausible that her post vamp behaviour was part of the norm for her. Yet the story line supports that Elena was always compassionate, caring and thinks things through first even before her parents died. Through her diary entries we were privy to Elena's thoughts behind her actions. In s4 as she wrote in her journal we saw how being a vampire became a struggle for her where she even became suicidal because she couldn't reconcile her feelings of trusting Damon and his philosophies so wholeheartedly when those same beliefs violate who Elena really is. Then the writing in the diary stopped and it's gone with the rest of the house. deb mentioned that we saw Elena start writing in her journal again and I would love for that to happen so we can get finally get some perspective into Elena's current motives. At the same time though the sire bond is still a brilliant way to get Elena to a point where she does love Damon. Through the s/b Damon did make her feel alive and challenged her. Elena doesn't know how the s/b affected her so it's all real for her. It allows the writers to answer the question brought up in 3x22: What if Damon and Elena had met first? We saw how Damon did in fact meet Elena first but he compelled this memory from her. When Damon asked Elena in 4x01 if it would have made a difference, Elena doesn't answer. Damon then says 'I didn't think so.' Elena made her choice in 3x22 but nothing changes the fact that she was with Stefan first. What better way then to get Stefan out of the way then the s/b? Through the s/b her feelings and recollections of Stefan '...are barely a memory.' Then Stefan is thrown at the bottom of a quarry without anyone knowing and now he has no memories. Short of writing Stefan off the show by having his character moving to a yurt somewhere, we're basically getting the Damon and Elena story as though they met first. Oh Napoli, don't say this is a way of writing off Stefan off the show. I think Stefan's memory loss is a way for the writers to reboot him to a better place. And by the previews, hopefully Elena will once again be the person she was before becoming a vampire. This is a way for the writers to fix the mess they did in S4 to Elena and Stefan. |
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Post by napoli on Oct 24, 2013 11:21:57 GMT -5
katvolley13 shoe20 stelena4ever Your posts describe exactly how I feel about Elena and the s/b. Had we been shown a different Elena prior to her becoming a vamp then it would have been plausible that her post vamp behaviour was part of the norm for her. Yet the story line supports that Elena was always compassionate, caring and thinks things through first even before her parents died. Through her diary entries we were privy to Elena's thoughts behind her actions. In s4 as she wrote in her journal we saw how being a vampire became a struggle for her where she even became suicidal because she couldn't reconcile her feelings of trusting Damon and his philosophies so wholeheartedly when those same beliefs violate who Elena really is. Then the writing in the diary stopped and it's gone with the rest of the house. deb mentioned that we saw Elena start writing in her journal again and I would love for that to happen so we can get finally get some perspective into Elena's current motives. At the same time though the sire bond is still a brilliant way to get Elena to a point where she does love Damon. Through the s/b Damon did make her feel alive and challenged her. Elena doesn't know how the s/b affected her so it's all real for her. It allows the writers to answer the question brought up in 3x22: What if Damon and Elena had met first? We saw how Damon did in fact meet Elena first but he compelled this memory from her. When Damon asked Elena in 4x01 if it would have made a difference, Elena doesn't answer. Damon then says 'I didn't think so.' Elena made her choice in 3x22 but nothing changes the fact that she was with Stefan first. What better way then to get Stefan out of the way then the s/b? Through the s/b her feelings and recollections of Stefan '...are barely a memory.' Then Stefan is thrown at the bottom of a quarry without anyone knowing and now he has no memories. Short of writing Stefan off the show by having his character moving to a yurt somewhere, we're basically getting the Damon and Elena story as though they met first. Oh Napoli, don't say this is a way of writing off Stefan off the show. I think Stefan's memory loss is a way for the writers to reboot him to a better place. And by the previews, hopefully Elena will once again be the person she was before becoming a vampire. This is a way for the writers to fix the mess they did in S4 to Elena and Stefan. Of course I should have said temporarily out of the triangle certainly never off the show. You're right though, it's going to be great to see how Stefan is without the memory baggage. |
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shoe20
Team Stefan
Posts: 1,739
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Post by shoe20 on Oct 24, 2013 11:39:35 GMT -5
katvolley13 shoe20 stelena4ever Your posts describe exactly how I feel about Elena and the s/b. Had we been shown a different Elena prior to her becoming a vamp then it would have been plausible that her post vamp behaviour was part of the norm for her. Yet the story line supports that Elena was always compassionate, caring and thinks things through first even before her parents died. Through her diary entries we were privy to Elena's thoughts behind her actions. In s4 as she wrote in her journal we saw how being a vampire became a struggle for her where she even became suicidal because she couldn't reconcile her feelings of trusting Damon and his philosophies so wholeheartedly when those same beliefs violate who Elena really is. Then the writing in the diary stopped and it's gone with the rest of the house. deb mentioned that we saw Elena start writing in her journal again and I would love for that to happen so we can get finally get some perspective into Elena's current motives. At the same time though the sire bond is still a brilliant way to get Elena to a point where she does love Damon. Through the s/b Damon did make her feel alive and challenged her. Elena doesn't know how the s/b affected her so it's all real for her. It allows the writers to answer the question brought up in 3x22: What if Damon and Elena had met first? We saw how Damon did in fact meet Elena first but he compelled this memory from her. When Damon asked Elena in 4x01 if it would have made a difference, Elena doesn't answer. Damon then says 'I didn't think so.' Elena made her choice in 3x22 but nothing changes the fact that she was with Stefan first. What better way then to get Stefan out of the way then the s/b? Through the s/b her feelings and recollections of Stefan '...are barely a memory.' Then Stefan is thrown at the bottom of a quarry without anyone knowing and now he has no memories. Short of writing Stefan off the show by having his character moving to a yurt somewhere, we're basically getting the Damon and Elena story as though they met first. I feel ya .....Elena's basic character destruction in S4...was needed for her impending growth phase. All S5, she will evaluate and question her "choice" The SB was a tool to force a responce.....and now we're being told the consequences of that "choice" |
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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 24, 2013 20:52:33 GMT -5
I don't know after the show tonight I was mad at Elena! I do not understand how she runs around telling stefen you are the perfect boyfriend. I thought stefen asking what was it too boring. No stefen it was not you it was me was perfect. Get your crap together Elena. You are annoying you have this amazing guy who you say is perfect and honestly you keep messing it up. I did like how stefen told them off instead of being happy for them.
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Kiki
Team Stefan
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Post by Kiki on Oct 24, 2013 23:21:09 GMT -5
I don't know after the show tonight I was mad at Elena! I do not understand how she runs around telling stefen you are the perfect boyfriend. I thought stefen asking what was it too boring. No stefen it was not you it was me was perfect. Get your crap together Elena. You are annoying you have this amazing guy who you say is perfect and honestly you keep messing it up. I did like how stefen told them off instead of being happy for them. I LOVED how Stefan left them and told them he only trusts Caroline. That was great. Finally they got what the deserve |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 3:51:26 GMT -5
OMFG, I still am recovering from this episode. IT WAS AWESOME! BAck soon with details. Have to rewatch and then I am starting to watch the whole story from season 1 on. My love for the Originals doesn't stand in the way of my love for TVD. Both tied up on #1 spot. Highly addicted, highly excited. I don't know where to begin. Back later and will answer the questions.     |
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Post by stelena4ever on Oct 25, 2013 9:06:09 GMT -5
I thought last nights episode was great. I loved all the SE scenes until Elena told Stefan she was with Damon. At that point I hated Elena. I love Stefan now and how he stood up to DE at the end. GO STEFAN!!
At this point, I hope Stefan does not get his memory back because this Stefan is stronger and doesn't carry all that baggage.
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 12:06:00 GMT -5
I hear what your saying and agree. The writers basically destroyed human Elenas character along with SE in season 4. They went above and beyond to prove Elena died on the bridge in the finale of S3. S4 started with her totally confused and not being able to turn to Stefan because of the blood/ripper problem....then the SB.....then Jeremys death.....then no humanity..... finally in the last Ep with some of her emotions back she made her choice of Damon. That was the writers goal and the place they wanted to get to......It's how they got her there that buggs me, not her choice. Think of S5 as a road Elena has to travel to get back from rock bottom....That's what I do. =) Don't forget Elena didn't turn off her humanity by choice. That is exactly right shoe20, Elena did not turn her humanity off by choice. Damon made her. Which is the difference between Damon and Stefan, and why Stefan is the better choice. Damon always takes the easy way out. Instead of being their for the woman he supposedly loves he takes her feelings away from her so he doesn't have to feel either, whereas Stefan would have helped her get through the loss of Jeremy. Been with her through the roller coaster of emotions. So where was Stefan and his support for Elena then, and what exactly did he expect Damon to do? Stefan and Caroline spent the entire time just waiting for Damon to come home to sort it out. They had no clue how to help Elena, Because the truth is, no one could help her. |
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 25, 2013 12:09:39 GMT -5
stelena4ever, yes! I know there was an outcry from posters when Damon force her to "turn it off", that Stefan wanted and ask Damon to help.......but Damon "chose" the easy way out....rather that deal with Elena's justified emotions over the lose of her brother, he simply pushed it aside with the SB. Stefan's reaction was clear as it was happening and on the porch after.....that wouldn't have been HIS "choice". Yep, I've seen this lots of times before, so what would Stefan have done? Not once did he offer up any help or alternative. He just criticized after the deed was done. If he thought he could have handled the situation better, then he should have done. |
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Post by Ruby on Oct 25, 2013 12:15:27 GMT -5
stelena4ever, yes! I know there was an outcry from posters when Damon force her to "turn it off", that Stefan wanted and ask Damon to help.......but Damon "chose" the easy way out....rather that deal with Elena's justified emotions over the lose of her brother, he simply pushed it aside with the SB. Stefan's reaction was clear as it was happening and on the porch after.....that wouldn't have been HIS "choice". Yep, I've seen this lots of times before, so what would Stefan have done? Not once did he offer up any help or alternative. He just criticized after the deed was done. If he thought he could have handled the situation better, then he should have done. The thing is people don't realize was I think Stefan was looking for Damon to comfort Elena and possibly use the sirebond to tell her it would be okay. Stefan didn't expect Damon to go to the extreme and have her shut it off and Damon handled it the best way he knew. Everyone knows Elena is Elena because of her compassion so no compassion leaves Elena being who? The b***y no humanity Elena that no one really liked. |
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Well if you do somehow get a chance to watch it later, let me know what you think. 
Hope you're doing well. 
