Post by Slash on Aug 27, 2013 1:23:30 GMT -5
So I'm watching Weeds right now on Netflix and am up to S5 or S6. Not sure which. Anyways, near the tail end of S1 and onward, up till now, I can't seem to understand the character that is Nancy, and those like her, or at the very least, those like her who are placed into the lead role of a show. (SPOILERS for Breaking Bad, Weeds and The Shield after this point) In S1, Nancy and Co. find a house in an Armenian neighborhood that they plan to use as their grow house. Victor, the guy that's going to set up the growing equipment shows up and one of the neighbors visits and tells them to leave the neighborhood cause they know what they're doing and it'll interfere with their business (because Victor helped set them up too). Conrad and Victor say pack it up but Nancy, like she doesn't have a care in the world, says continue setting the place up.
This is an all too familiar moment for me where I realized she was going to be one of 'those' characters. Other shows that have 'those' characters that I've watched: The Shield and Breaking Bad. I loathe these types of characters, especially as leads. Let me explain:
In The Shield, Vic Mackey was constantly in trouble or under suspicion and when he was in the clear, he picks up the shovel and digs himself deeper the next time. At what point was ripping off the Armenian money train a good idea? If I recall, after all the trouble that was brought down on them, they didn't even have any money in the end or it was just a fraction of what they stole. It wasn't just Vic either. Shane was just as much a screw up. The guy just stayed in trouble and he dragged all his buddies along for the ride which is shame when you get to the end of the series. He's got issues at home with the daughter and wife and where the money is coming from, eventually leading to Korin being pulled into the suspicion surrounding him and his team and resulting in his family leaving/distancing themselves from him.
I've only watched into the tail end of S2 of Breaking Bad but Walter White is the same thing. He's got cancer, tries to set his family up before he goes and along the way, dig, dig, dig, dig. The 'Tuco' mess for instance. Jesse tries to sell him a pound to distribute, Walter throws 2 on the table for their deal. They come up short when they're supposed to meet and before leaving that meeting, Walter ups it to 4 pounds... From there, it's just downhill some more. He gets big headed and tells Jesse and his friends to move into rival territory when they don't have the connections/man power to do so and it gets one of them killed. Last episode I watched, Walter was going to meet whatshisname from the burger place with all the meth him and Jesse just cooked after telling Jesse the chemical they had was going to go bad if they didn't cook it that weekend (once again, they ended up in a rough situation in the desert). This is on top of the whole family mess the guy has going at this point with the lies.
Now, back to Weeds, up till this season, it's just been one move after another that keeps that hole getting deeper and deeper. She goes from problems with the Armenians and U-Turn with a crooked DEA newlywed husband shaking her down, to problems with some biker gang that she gets in bed with a Mexican gang for protection (for half her business without consulting those working with her) which leads to a huge fire that devastates the community of theirs and as she moves on, she ends up getting deeper with the Mexicans. She's working a front for them and is told not to mess with or ask questions about the tunnel they have at the back of the store but she goes in said tunnel as soon as she finds it and even pushes her luck when she sees someone that she's not supposed to have seen. She finds out who he is and just starts throwing that info in the face of others just to get her way and I'm wondering why someone doesn't just shoot her in the face and end her streak of luck. But no, she ends up dating said person and when she doesn't like what's coming through the tunnel (cocaine, heroine, girls, guns), she rats (mainly the girls bothering her) and as soon as she does, the guy she's dating says he took care of no more girls coming through the tunnel. Too late. DEA raids the place and jump ahead, a few episodes later, she's got 3 dead DEA agents to her name.
That's not even all the moments up to this point where she's just constantly making STUPID, greedy, non-thought-out, decisions and when you look at them, they're all based around a her/me mentality and she's just dragging the family and associates along without their input but they suffer her consequences as well (they have to uproot when she messes up and has to run). She's constantly put in life-or-death situations and she never learns. Most recent episode, they're in Seattle, had their names changed and say they're going to live clean/straight and at the first chance, she's back to moving weed. Trouble ensues. She drags her brother-in-law into it cause she needs something from him cause the guy who makes her client connections has already promised product to people and she can't get any and he threatens her.
These characters seem to invite trouble in at the door and when they get past one problem, usually life threatening, they go right back in for more and it usually results in those around them (family) that they care for being put under stress from the BS decisions or worse. They get a light at the end of the tunnel and turn right back into the darkness instead of cutting their losses at a point. Even worse, the family members/characters in these cases feel like they're trapped or get further involved. These kinds of characters are manipulative as HELL too to get everyone to fall in line behind them and follow them into the abyss.
So my question is, do these people pass as interesting characters? People who seem to lack any foresight of the consequence of what they're doing? These people, these characters, just become so hard to watch as the shows go on and I made it to the end of The Shield but when I saw the signs in Breaking Bad, I stopped. I'm considering continuing it but not sure. Quite frankly, I think I hate everyone on that show: Walter, Skylar, Jesse, Jr., etc.. This far into Weeds, I'm sure I hate everyone too cause they let Nancy get away with this crap and at any chance to challenge her, they back down/succumb. She always gets her way with them and constantly drags them to that edge with her but as soon as they step out of line, she's on them or rants about 'me, me, me'. Those outside of the family dynamic, such as Doug, Dean, Celia, etc. are just useless/time wasters at this point and just as hateable in all this.
And before anyone says it, yes, I know it's 'TV'. It's supposed to be compelling, fantastical, etc. and as the viewer, I'm supposed to have some suspension of disbelief. There are just some shows I can't do that with or can only make it so far before I start asking what the hell is going on/what this character is doing and want to strangle them.
I should probably be avoiding certain shows cause they really do press all the wrong buttons as I continue to watch. TVD has it's moments like this where characters do things that are just so stupid/self-centered without foresight that I want to appear in-universe as some all powerful being and wipe said character from existence while leaving a note to those that were recently affected saying "I'm sorry for the trouble". Elena is probably the closest one to the above characters. Manipulative as HELL in my eyes, in a position of decision making that affects a large group of people, a lot of the times it benefits her hugely or she lacks the foresight of how others are ultimately going to be impacted. Remember when Stefan was at Klaus' side and when Elena got a hint of where he was (in the mountains), she wanted to go to him and was trying to call in whatever help/favors she could...? It's a full moon, in the mountains where Werewolves go to run freely to not hurt innocents, and she wants to get Stefan back who is with Klaus, who he made a deal with? Not a damn bit of sense that entire episode. Can't remember if this was before or after Stefan killing Andie to send a message to stay away either. I also don't like when she was with Stefan but she kept Damon close/on a leash with the way she pushed and pulled him away and tries to keep both close to her by saying she doesn't want either to leave but plays on both of their emotions.
Oh, and if for some reason, this is better suited for the Rants board, which it probably is unless that's TVD specific, by all means, move this venting thread there.
This is an all too familiar moment for me where I realized she was going to be one of 'those' characters. Other shows that have 'those' characters that I've watched: The Shield and Breaking Bad. I loathe these types of characters, especially as leads. Let me explain:
In The Shield, Vic Mackey was constantly in trouble or under suspicion and when he was in the clear, he picks up the shovel and digs himself deeper the next time. At what point was ripping off the Armenian money train a good idea? If I recall, after all the trouble that was brought down on them, they didn't even have any money in the end or it was just a fraction of what they stole. It wasn't just Vic either. Shane was just as much a screw up. The guy just stayed in trouble and he dragged all his buddies along for the ride which is shame when you get to the end of the series. He's got issues at home with the daughter and wife and where the money is coming from, eventually leading to Korin being pulled into the suspicion surrounding him and his team and resulting in his family leaving/distancing themselves from him.
I've only watched into the tail end of S2 of Breaking Bad but Walter White is the same thing. He's got cancer, tries to set his family up before he goes and along the way, dig, dig, dig, dig. The 'Tuco' mess for instance. Jesse tries to sell him a pound to distribute, Walter throws 2 on the table for their deal. They come up short when they're supposed to meet and before leaving that meeting, Walter ups it to 4 pounds... From there, it's just downhill some more. He gets big headed and tells Jesse and his friends to move into rival territory when they don't have the connections/man power to do so and it gets one of them killed. Last episode I watched, Walter was going to meet whatshisname from the burger place with all the meth him and Jesse just cooked after telling Jesse the chemical they had was going to go bad if they didn't cook it that weekend (once again, they ended up in a rough situation in the desert). This is on top of the whole family mess the guy has going at this point with the lies.
Now, back to Weeds, up till this season, it's just been one move after another that keeps that hole getting deeper and deeper. She goes from problems with the Armenians and U-Turn with a crooked DEA newlywed husband shaking her down, to problems with some biker gang that she gets in bed with a Mexican gang for protection (for half her business without consulting those working with her) which leads to a huge fire that devastates the community of theirs and as she moves on, she ends up getting deeper with the Mexicans. She's working a front for them and is told not to mess with or ask questions about the tunnel they have at the back of the store but she goes in said tunnel as soon as she finds it and even pushes her luck when she sees someone that she's not supposed to have seen. She finds out who he is and just starts throwing that info in the face of others just to get her way and I'm wondering why someone doesn't just shoot her in the face and end her streak of luck. But no, she ends up dating said person and when she doesn't like what's coming through the tunnel (cocaine, heroine, girls, guns), she rats (mainly the girls bothering her) and as soon as she does, the guy she's dating says he took care of no more girls coming through the tunnel. Too late. DEA raids the place and jump ahead, a few episodes later, she's got 3 dead DEA agents to her name.
That's not even all the moments up to this point where she's just constantly making STUPID, greedy, non-thought-out, decisions and when you look at them, they're all based around a her/me mentality and she's just dragging the family and associates along without their input but they suffer her consequences as well (they have to uproot when she messes up and has to run). She's constantly put in life-or-death situations and she never learns. Most recent episode, they're in Seattle, had their names changed and say they're going to live clean/straight and at the first chance, she's back to moving weed. Trouble ensues. She drags her brother-in-law into it cause she needs something from him cause the guy who makes her client connections has already promised product to people and she can't get any and he threatens her.
These characters seem to invite trouble in at the door and when they get past one problem, usually life threatening, they go right back in for more and it usually results in those around them (family) that they care for being put under stress from the BS decisions or worse. They get a light at the end of the tunnel and turn right back into the darkness instead of cutting their losses at a point. Even worse, the family members/characters in these cases feel like they're trapped or get further involved. These kinds of characters are manipulative as HELL too to get everyone to fall in line behind them and follow them into the abyss.
So my question is, do these people pass as interesting characters? People who seem to lack any foresight of the consequence of what they're doing? These people, these characters, just become so hard to watch as the shows go on and I made it to the end of The Shield but when I saw the signs in Breaking Bad, I stopped. I'm considering continuing it but not sure. Quite frankly, I think I hate everyone on that show: Walter, Skylar, Jesse, Jr., etc.. This far into Weeds, I'm sure I hate everyone too cause they let Nancy get away with this crap and at any chance to challenge her, they back down/succumb. She always gets her way with them and constantly drags them to that edge with her but as soon as they step out of line, she's on them or rants about 'me, me, me'. Those outside of the family dynamic, such as Doug, Dean, Celia, etc. are just useless/time wasters at this point and just as hateable in all this.
And before anyone says it, yes, I know it's 'TV'. It's supposed to be compelling, fantastical, etc. and as the viewer, I'm supposed to have some suspension of disbelief. There are just some shows I can't do that with or can only make it so far before I start asking what the hell is going on/what this character is doing and want to strangle them.
I should probably be avoiding certain shows cause they really do press all the wrong buttons as I continue to watch. TVD has it's moments like this where characters do things that are just so stupid/self-centered without foresight that I want to appear in-universe as some all powerful being and wipe said character from existence while leaving a note to those that were recently affected saying "I'm sorry for the trouble". Elena is probably the closest one to the above characters. Manipulative as HELL in my eyes, in a position of decision making that affects a large group of people, a lot of the times it benefits her hugely or she lacks the foresight of how others are ultimately going to be impacted. Remember when Stefan was at Klaus' side and when Elena got a hint of where he was (in the mountains), she wanted to go to him and was trying to call in whatever help/favors she could...? It's a full moon, in the mountains where Werewolves go to run freely to not hurt innocents, and she wants to get Stefan back who is with Klaus, who he made a deal with? Not a damn bit of sense that entire episode. Can't remember if this was before or after Stefan killing Andie to send a message to stay away either. I also don't like when she was with Stefan but she kept Damon close/on a leash with the way she pushed and pulled him away and tries to keep both close to her by saying she doesn't want either to leave but plays on both of their emotions.
Oh, and if for some reason, this is better suited for the Rants board, which it probably is unless that's TVD specific, by all means, move this venting thread there.