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Elena
Oct 2, 2013 1:30:49 GMT -5
Post by Anna on Oct 2, 2013 1:30:49 GMT -5
I understand Elena was trying to find herself excluding the brothers out the picture but she was all over the place to me this season. Typically when you're trying to find yourself, its not going to be clean. Its going to be messy as hell. Because thats realistic. Or at least it is to me. When im going through something. I change my mind a hundred times. I am all over the place. I say something, act differently and then think on a completely different level. I feel that Elena's transition has been real. That its not easy. Everyone's journey suggests that it isn't easy. So why should Elena's be any different? We touched on Caroline's blood lust which lasted 2-3 eps and she had it under control. But you know what? It took her all season to work up the courage for her to be completely comfortable with her Mom and Matt. By the end of S2 she ended up accepting it. That this was who she was and she wasn't going to be afraid of that. (I really love identity issues and acceptance of ones self. I just think its such a beautiful thing to watch as a person grows to love who they are) We have seen Stefan's continuous struggles with his blood lust and a disarray of emotions from his ripper self to his heavily emotional side. And then we have Damon's with his no humanity and pretending not to feel. Like i don't understand it how it could have ever been considered simple or straight forward.
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Elena
Oct 2, 2013 1:46:38 GMT -5
Post by Anna on Oct 2, 2013 1:46:38 GMT -5
Anna you know I am no big Elena fan, but I can see what you are talking about. And honestly the fact that she turned her humanity back on so quickly is a huge feat, especially when we look at the other vampires, and what it took for them to turn it back on. Ruby I really don't think that she had even figured out who she was before she became a vampire, so I can see how it's a lot to deal with figuring it out when you throw all the vampire confusion into the mix. She irks me a more than 75% of the time, but she does also have moments when I actually kinda like her. I do hope that season 5 will change that, and maybe I can like her again. I know you're not Elena's biggest fan LA. But you're right in the sense that Elena is so far out of her element even before she met Stefan, before even her parents died. This has been Elena's arc for awhile now. Figuring out who she is while dealing with the all the things that happen around her ie. losing all her parental figures, the sacrifice, losing her brother, killing people, figuring out what shes feeling. And I agree that she is not fully there. But she has taken a step in the right direction. And I hope we get to see more talk about her killings or any reference to her humanity off phase will be great. (I'm still waiting on an apology to Caroline)
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Elena
Oct 2, 2013 1:52:57 GMT -5
Post by Anna on Oct 2, 2013 1:52:57 GMT -5
And we can't forget about the sirebond. This must be talked about. TO either validate its existence and how it she felt or to prove there was never such a thing ( Lets go with option 2 we need to dispel that idea as far away as possible from TVD)
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Elena
Oct 2, 2013 1:58:49 GMT -5
Post by LA on Oct 2, 2013 1:58:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean I don't like her, but even I can't deny that she has had to deal with a lot since the show started. And I mean she was what like 16 when her parents died, I know I wouldn't be able to handle that now, and I'm almost 30, so I get it Anna. But I think that's exactly why (and I am sorry to bring the boys back into this) she should not be with anyone right now. I personally think that she needs to get comfortable with Elena, before she goes and makes an official decision between them. I'm all for exploration, and figuring out what you want, but I also feel like she needs to decide who she is gonna be first. Sorry, that was kinda tirade-y. And yes, I am waiting on that apology too! You know how I felt about how she treated Caroline. But I really don't see it happening. Not where we get to see it anyway.
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Elena
Oct 2, 2013 3:30:45 GMT -5
Post by Anna on Oct 2, 2013 3:30:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean I don't like her, but even I can't deny that she has had to deal with a lot since the show started. And I mean she was what like 16 when her parents died, I know I wouldn't be able to handle that now, and I'm almost 30, so I get it Anna. But I think that's exactly why (and I am sorry to bring the boys back into this) she should not be with anyone right now. I personally think that she needs to get comfortable with Elena, before she goes and makes an official decision between them. I'm all for exploration, and figuring out what you want, but I also feel like she needs to decide who she is gonna be first. Sorry, that was kinda tirade-y. And yes, I am waiting on that apology too! You know how I felt about how she treated Caroline. But I really don't see it happening. Not where we get to see it anyway. Oh god yes. LA I agree so much. Elena should have been single for all of S4. She should have taken the time to get herself together without anyone. I hate that Elena slept with Damon the day after she broke up with Stefan. (but also from her point of view i get it but i still think she should have waited) And that the reason the sirebond existed was because JP wanted them to sleep together as soon as possible. Like wth!! WHY would you do that? This entire time we have this slow build up for Delena and they wanted to ditch that so that they could get rid of the sexual tension. I'm sorry that was one of the worst ways to do that.
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Post by Ruby on Oct 2, 2013 6:27:21 GMT -5
I also agree Elena should have been single for all of season four. And I get that while trying to figure out who you are things can get messy especially when you throw a sire bond in the mix. That's why I say season four wasn't Elena. It was a complete 360 for me. It was elena becoming sired elena. Then you had no humanity elena and then we had vengeful elena. All these Elenas that were kind of forced on her.
There are many times I feel for Elena. When Jenna died..when Jeremy died and she couldn't take it. When she finally had to accept Jeremy being gone and the cemetery scene her breaking down in front of his grave etc.
This girl has been surrounded by death and I know it can definitely be a hard roll to figure herself out. I just don't appreciate how she treated her friends.claiming caroline was too perfect at being a vamp forgetting caroline being turned on purpose for Katherine own game and not even knowing she was in transition mode. Killing someone right away without knowing why she was going what she was doing. Then trying to figure out how to deal with it while giving up Matt and making things more distant with her mom. Loosing her dad as well and getting tortured by wolves. CAROLINES biggest pet peeve ended up being her greatest strength which was her super control freak attitude. That was a perfect character development for me.
Back to Elena... how she also treated stefan and how as soon as she became a vamp she was whining how she couldn't survive it and then everyone pointing the finger at Stefan bc he "was trying to fix her"
I'm glad by the end of season four she finally accepted she can be a well controlled vampire but then look at her love for stefan how supernatural it had to dissapear and expect me to be okay she's with Damon. (IMo..Sorry if you are a Delena fan dont mean to bash)
So season four wad definitely a rollar coast to watch for me.
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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 2, 2013 7:14:30 GMT -5
One could feel sorry for Elena and then you look back at her choices and a lot of the death in her life is due to the fact she wants to be with vampires technically. The only death that was tragic was parents. Now I would have a hard time walking away too lol. Two hot boys fawning all over lol but at what cost. Jeremy was like we need to go people are always dying. She sends him away. I am glad she does not obviously because there would be no show. In a way Damon and STEFEN became ELena's family. When one is not there she goes to the other one.
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Post by napoli on Oct 2, 2013 9:24:56 GMT -5
With the doppelganger story line being explored this season we will likely find out that Elena didn't really have a choice but to have the Salvatores in her life or at least Stefan but as we have seen where Stefan goes Damon seems to follow. Even as early as 1x01 there was connection between Stefan and Elena that seemed beyond their control.
Elena: I’m Elena
Stefan: I’m Stefan
Elena: I know. We have History together…
Stefan: …and English and French.
Elena: Right.
and also
Stefan: I shouldn't have come home, I know the risk, but I had no choice, I have to know her.
Elena as the doppelganger was not her choice. Being the doppelganger caused a set of actions to take place where vampires (Katherine, Klaus, Isobel) were going to be part of her life even if she chose not to be with Stefan. Elena may not have survived the sacrifice if not for having vampires on her side. Technically it was Damon opening the tomb and then the revelation of Katherine not being dead that caused the ball rolling of having Klaus enter Elena's life.
I agree that all the changes Elena went through were because of the sire bond. Elena did not truly make her own choices this season. Her emotions and actions were controlled by Damon. If Elena were regressing on her own because she wanted to kill Connor, because she truly trusts Damon, because she wanted to feed on people then I would absolutely hate her. I also want to point out that if we were in Stefan's early days of ripper mode I would also hate him so it's downward spiral of the character's journey that I just can't root for. Just like Stefan was able to work through his ripper mode, Elena will also be able to work through the damage caused by the sire bond.
You're right Anna, Elena should be compassionate because she wants to be and not because she has to be. But it's canon in TVD that when you become a vampire that your own personality becomes amplified and your emotions are heightened. Many characters mentioned throughout s4 that sire bond Elena is nothing like human Elena.
All these quotes are about Elena 4x04 Bonnie: She's acting like a different person. 4x07 Caroline: But being a vampire only amplifies who you already are. It doesn't turn you into a completely different person. 4x11 Matt: All I know Elena is that the old you would have never left Jeremy with Damon. Especially after what happened last night.
This journey that Elena has been on so far hasn't been natural. It was forced on her. I'm hoping next season Elena goes through real growth unencumbered by outward influences and that the Elena from s1-3 comes back. I still have hope for Elena but I can only root for her if she chooses to become her compassionate self.
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Elena
Oct 2, 2013 10:01:34 GMT -5
Post by Anna on Oct 2, 2013 10:01:34 GMT -5
I agree that all the changes Elena went through were because of the sire bond. Elena did not truly make her own choices this season. Her emotions and actions were controlled by Damon. come her compassionate self. Ughh I have an issue. I don't see this as Damon's fault. Elena's faults are her own. No one else is to blame for them other than herself. Elena isn't going to start blaming Damon because of what she did. (And I know she does in 4x05 but I mean the aftereffects of humanity!off!elena) I believe every choice Elena made were because she wanted to. And this might be a silly thought because of the sirebond but unless we have definite proof that the sirebond is real I refuse to believe that what Elena did was because she was sired to Damon. The sirebond has to many plot holes to be real I.e A vampire only bonds when she has feelings before she was turned for her sire...that would mean Damon would have been sired, Lexi's Man would have been sired. I dunno. The whole you're sired doesn't really make sense to me. And the instances where the "sirebond" was used. Ehh its not proof enough. Like for example Elena being able to feed from bloodbags...Elena was panicking that day in 4x02 she was grasping the straws, when you panic your body sometimes doesn't listen to you. She was all over the place. She wasn't calm. Of course if you force something its going to taste like crap. If for example we saw her try this like another two times yes that would have been proof that this exists. But one time it doesn't work. I can't accept that as the sirebond. (these are just my headcanons because the sirebond just doesn't make sense)
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Elena
Oct 2, 2013 10:16:32 GMT -5
Post by Anna on Oct 2, 2013 10:16:32 GMT -5
One could feel sorry for Elena and then you look back at her choices and a lot of the death in her life is due to the fact she wants to be with vampires technically. The only death that was tragic was parents. Now I would have a hard time walking away too lol. Two hot boys fawning all over lol but at what cost. Jeremy was like we need to go people are always dying. She sends him away. I am glad she does not obviously because there would be no show. In a way Damon and STEFEN became ELena's family. When one is not there she goes to the other one. My heart bled out when Elena witnessed Jenna died. I don't know what's more traumatic her witnessing her second 'parental' death or the fact that Elena believes that at least some part of this was her fault. And also can we mention John. John gave up his life so that she could live a human life. When in the next season that death is all for naught as she becomes a vampire. Again that has to sit on Elena throughout her transformation. And you're right. When one brother isn't there she holds on to dear life to the other because without them she is alone. The no.1 fear Elena has; Losing someone else she cares for. And I don't blame her. When you lose so many people its easy to attach yourself to those who remain.
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Elena
Oct 2, 2013 10:41:38 GMT -5
deb likes this
Post by Ruby on Oct 2, 2013 10:41:38 GMT -5
I agree that all the changes Elena went through were because of the sire bond. Elena did not truly make her own choices this season. Her emotions and actions were controlled by Damon. come her compassionate self. Ughh I have an issue. I don't see this as Damon's fault. Elena's faults are her own. No one else is to blame for them other than herself. Elena isn't going to start blaming Damon because of what she did. (And I know she does in 4x05 but I mean the aftereffects of humanity!off!elena) I believe every choice Elena made were because she wanted to. And this might be a silly thought because of the sirebond but unless we have definite proof that the sirebond is real I refuse to believe that what Elena did was because she was sired to Damon. The sirebond has to many plot holes to be real I.e A vampire only bonds when she has feelings before she was turned for her sire...that would mean Damon would have been sired, Lexi's Man would have been sired. I dunno. The whole you're sired doesn't really make sense to me. And the instances where the "sirebond" was used. Ehh its not proof enough. Like for example Elena being able to feed from bloodbags...Elena was panicking that day in 4x02 she was grasping the straws, when you panic your body sometimes doesn't listen to you. She was all over the place. She wasn't calm. Of course if you force something its going to taste like crap. If for example we saw her try this like another two times yes that would have been proof that this exists. But one time it doesn't work. I can't accept that as the sirebond. (these are just my headcanons because the sirebond just doesn't make sense)I dont believe the sirebond was Damon's fault or that he purposely controlled her. It was his lack of judgement when it came to his choice of words for me. Could he actually do the impossible and give elena up because of the sire bond? He didnt allow himself to. and part of me sees why he couldnt. The sirebond i feel messed more with his head rather then elena. Even though the sirebond did change elena. She was pulled by it towards Damon no matter what and intensified her feelings for Damon while they miracously surpressed her feelings for Stefan. urgh the sirebond is just one big storyline i wish to forget lol
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Elena
Oct 2, 2013 11:37:40 GMT -5
deb likes this
Post by napoli on Oct 2, 2013 11:37:40 GMT -5
I agree that all the changes Elena went through were because of the sire bond. Elena did not truly make her own choices this season. Her emotions and actions were controlled by Damon. come her compassionate self. Ughh I have an issue. I don't see this as Damon's fault. Elena's faults are her own. No one else is to blame for them other than herself. Elena isn't going to start blaming Damon because of what she did. (And I know she does in 4x05 but I mean the aftereffects of humanity!off!elena) I believe every choice Elena made were because she wanted to. And this might be a silly thought because of the sirebond but unless we have definite proof that the sirebond is real I refuse to believe that what Elena did was because she was sired to Damon. The sirebond has to many plot holes to be real I.e A vampire only bonds when she has feelings before she was turned for her sire...that would mean Damon would have been sired, Lexi's Man would have been sired. I dunno. The whole you're sired doesn't really make sense to me. And the instances where the "sirebond" was used. Ehh its not proof enough. Like for example Elena being able to feed from bloodbags...Elena was panicking that day in 4x02 she was grasping the straws, when you panic your body sometimes doesn't listen to you. She was all over the place. She wasn't calm. Of course if you force something its going to taste like crap. If for example we saw her try this like another two times yes that would have been proof that this exists. But one time it doesn't work. I can't accept that as the sirebond. (these are just my headcanons because the sirebond just doesn't make sense)It wasn't Damon's fault that the sire bond was created. However, in this story line the sire bond was presented as the siree doing everything to make her sire happy - remember the episode with Charlotte? If you don't believe the sire bond and consequent affects actually existed then there's really no point in discussing it further. The only part I agree with you is that Elena is definitely on a journey. Luckily the sire bond is no longer in effect so we'll see in s5 Elena making her own choices and see her character evolve on her own terms.
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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 2, 2013 21:23:58 GMT -5
I hope so. I have all this animosity obviously. Maybe the parallel is Elena finding herself and stefen finding his self and when they are stronger they come together.
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Elena
Oct 3, 2013 10:08:56 GMT -5
Post by Anna on Oct 3, 2013 10:08:56 GMT -5
Ughh I have an issue. I don't see this as Damon's fault. Elena's faults are her own. No one else is to blame for them other than herself. Elena isn't going to start blaming Damon because of what she did. (And I know she does in 4x05 but I mean the aftereffects of humanity!off!elena) I believe every choice Elena made were because she wanted to. And this might be a silly thought because of the sirebond but unless we have definite proof that the sirebond is real I refuse to believe that what Elena did was because she was sired to Damon. The sirebond has to many plot holes to be real I.e A vampire only bonds when she has feelings before she was turned for her sire...that would mean Damon would have been sired, Lexi's Man would have been sired. I dunno. The whole you're sired doesn't really make sense to me. And the instances where the "sirebond" was used. Ehh its not proof enough. Like for example Elena being able to feed from bloodbags...Elena was panicking that day in 4x02 she was grasping the straws, when you panic your body sometimes doesn't listen to you. She was all over the place. She wasn't calm. Of course if you force something its going to taste like crap. If for example we saw her try this like another two times yes that would have been proof that this exists. But one time it doesn't work. I can't accept that as the sirebond. (these are just my headcanons because the sirebond just doesn't make sense)It wasn't Damon's fault that the sire bond was created. However, in this story line the sire bond was presented as the siree doing everything to make her sire happy - remember the episode with Charlotte? If you don't believe the sire bond and consequent affects actually existed then there's really no point in discussing it further. The only part I agree with you is that Elena is definitely on a journey. Luckily the sire bond is no longer in effect so we'll see in s5 Elena making her own choices and see her character evolve on her own terms. I do remember the episode with Charlotte. She seemed crazy. So she meets Damon, she falls for him, he turns her and shes sired to him. It just brings out the point why wasn't Damon sired then when he turned? He loved Katherine back then he was so head over heels, he watched her feed, kissed her when her mouth was all bloody. He was crazy and messed up as well. The sirebond theory doesn't make sense. How does it only work with one case. (grrr its just the silliest idea they have ever come up with)Anyway if we rule out the sirebond completely. Elena's decisions were hers to make. Like of course they would be influenced by Damon. He's her friend and later on lover and that does affect your decisions. Because its totally realistic for people to do things based on what others think. And I like to think Elena does look up to Damon especially with the whole 'im a vampire now how do i act?' She didn't feel comfortable to go to Stefan or Caroline so she went to Damon because she felt he would understand her best. (okay its 1am i dont even know if im still making sense so lets leave it here)
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Kiki
Team Stefan
Posts: 2,953
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Elena
Oct 3, 2013 10:58:45 GMT -5
Post by Kiki on Oct 3, 2013 10:58:45 GMT -5
It wasn't Damon's fault that the sire bond was created. However, in this story line the sire bond was presented as the siree doing everything to make her sire happy - remember the episode with Charlotte? If you don't believe the sire bond and consequent affects actually existed then there's really no point in discussing it further. The only part I agree with you is that Elena is definitely on a journey. Luckily the sire bond is no longer in effect so we'll see in s5 Elena making her own choices and see her character evolve on her own terms. I do remember the episode with Charlotte. She seemed crazy. So she meets Damon, she falls for him, he turns her and shes sired to him. It just brings out the point why wasn't Damon sired then when he turned? He loved Katherine back then he was so head over heels, he watched her feed, kissed her when her mouth was all bloody. He was crazy and messed up as well. The sirebond theory doesn't make sense. How does it only work with one case. (grrr its just the silliest idea they have ever come up with)Anyway if we rule out the sirebond completely. Elena's decisions were hers to make. Like of course they would be influenced by Damon. He's her friend and later on lover and that does affect your decisions. Because its totally realistic for people to do things based on what others think. And I like to think Elena does look up to Damon especially with the whole 'im a vampire now how do i act?' She didn't feel comfortable to go to Stefan or Caroline so she went to Damon because she felt he would understand her best. (okay its 1am i dont even know if im still making sense so lets leave it here)Maybe there is something special about Damon's blood? So only vampires who were turned by his blood are sired to him? Vicky's vampirelife was too short to judge and did he ever turn anyone else on the show?
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