shoe20
Team Stefan
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Post by shoe20 on Jun 26, 2014 13:10:53 GMT -5
Now, we're talkin. GREAT post. First I never thought Elena and Stefan were the same person.....I get Elena's transition to the "dark side"...I don't get Stefan blaming Elena for what Silas did.....sry. Stefan can't reengage with with Elena not because of Silas, but at this point there's not much common ground. He gave his blessing to DE, not because he thought it was best for either party. As far as Stefan feeling compassion for Katherine......who stuck the knife in? ? I can't blame Stefan for Kat taking over Elena's body as you can. This was a Kat decision to survive. I don't think anything in the finale had to do with Elena wanting to save Damon, but I do agree redemption is an arrow in Elena's quiver. I say Elena is not her self.....although many say Elena is her NEW self. As far as Damon redeeming himself in the finale...yep, he did ....he grabbed Bonnie's hand and kept from getting swept-ed away. I saw no other character change that make me believe Damon was on a new path. keep talkin' Well, I think Damon decided to kill himself along with the Travelers knowing that everything might not go as planned. He lied to Elena to keep her from risking her life, but I'm sure they both knew that there was a chance Damon would die and not come back. That's why Elena got into the car with him. She was still afraid that he might die forever and she wanted to go with him. Elena's action was extremely unhealthy, but it proves that at least one person in that scenario was thinking realistically. When Elena was crying and said, "You lied to me," I think it was just an emotional reaction to the fact that Damon's spirit was going to be gone for good. It's still debatable if or how Damon can be brought back. The weird part is that Elena's grieving was the first healthy behavior I'd seen her display in a while. I'm not sure why Damon seemed so calm. It could have been that he was glad to be out of a toxic relationship, or that he felt a sense of peace because he'd saved so many people, or it could have been a little of both. It's really just a theory right now, maybe one of many, that Damon went to the same place Bonnie did because he was holding her hand. The cliffhanger was designed so that we could come up with theories about what happened to them and discuss it throughout the hiatus. Damon might get brought out of a dark dimension, and he might be the one to tell everybody that the dimension exists. We only know about it because Caroline Dries had to explain in an interview where Katherine went. It was obvious to me right away that Stefan was the one who stuck Katherine with the dagger because a) he's the only one she trusted and she wouldn't have expected it, and b) he felt guilty about what he had done. No one really needs to blame Stefan for what Katherine did to Elena because he probably blames himself, but at the same time he wants Elena away from him. I think that by the end of the season, Stefan loved his brother more than he really cared about Elena. He knew he would be throwing her into a toxic, unhealthy relationship when he made that speech. Stefan just didn't like being around Elena while she was single because he was afraid he would start re-examining his feelings for her. He also loved his brother and knew that Elena was good for Damon, even if Damon wasn't good for Elena. If Stefan wanted to do the right thing and not what would benefit him or Damon, he would have told Elena that she might be better off with someone who isn't a vampire. I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but Elena has only ever slept with vampires. That's kind of sad. Good repost, but I have problems with the two highlighted statements. First I don't believe Stefan love's his brother more than his love for Elena.....I think he was supporting Elena's decision and giving her space. I don't think it had anything to do with Stefan examining his feelings for Elena......He's not confused! She's the love of his life! As far as Elena only being with Vampires..... What about Matt? I'll give you VampElena has only been with Damon, but S4 1-6 showed she wanted Stefan. Thanks for responding... I have know idea what writers have in-store for Elena, Stefan, or Damon, but the status quoe, definitely changed in the finale. Elena is going to change, and so is Damon..... this is not a summer vacation (time wise). My problem is.... What changed in Elena's life to have her think Damon was Gods...Gift..... When to eps ago she couldn't wait to get herself free?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 18:06:09 GMT -5
When I said that Elena has only been with vampires, I was trying not to get too specific and say that Elena has only SLEPT with vampires. I remember her giving her virginity to Stefan, seeing a picture of Katherine, and freaking out and running away. Elena has only slept with dead guys. That's what I was trying to say. I'm not sure if anyone actually spelled this out on the show, but it was insinuated that Elena never went that far with Matt.
Elena's sire bond to Damon in Season 4 was definitely inconsistent. She did Damon's bidding when her body rejected everything but blood directly from the vein, but she still wanted to be with Stefan during the early weeks. It's almost like Damon made the sire bond turn into something involving love when he found out she was sired to him. I really hope Season 6 brings a reckoning for Elena and she moves on with ANYONE but Damon, except for Stefan. For me, Stelena is long over. I think it's over for the writers, too. A lot has happened, in the past season especially, that puts Stefan and Elena too far apart. If they do get together again, it will be brief. I hope that they become good friends in the future. To me that's the best form of Stelena.
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Post by damonsgirl on Jun 26, 2014 19:00:22 GMT -5
When I said that Elena has only been with vampires, I was trying not to get too specific and say that Elena has only SLEPT with vampires. I remember her giving her virginity to Stefan, seeing a picture of Katherine, and freaking out and running away. Elena has only slept with dead guys. That's what I was trying to say. I'm not sure if anyone actually spelled this out on the show, but it was insinuated that Elena never went that far with Matt. Elena's sire bond to Damon in Season 4 was definitely inconsistent. She did Damon's bidding when her body rejected everything but blood directly from the vein, but she still wanted to be with Stefan during the early weeks. It's almost like Damon made the sire bond turn into something involving love when he found out she was sired to him. I really hope Season 6 brings a reckoning for Elena and she moves on with ANYONE but Damon, except for Stefan. For me, Stelena is long over. I think it's over for the writers, too. A lot has happened, in the past season especially, that puts Stefan and Elena too far apart. If they do get together again, it will be brief. I hope that they become good friends in the future. To me that's the best form of Stelena. Hi, Yeah, I am not sure that the show has said either way whether Elena was a virgin or not when she slept with Stefan, and as far as the SB goes, it was definately inconsistent where the writing was concerned, which is why there is the endless debates about it even now. My take on the whole SB Sl is this; Elena's head wanted to be with Stefan, but she had strong feelings for Damon, and her head was over ruling her heart so she "chose" Stefan. As a vampire, she tried to cement that choice to Stefan in 4x01, but her heart, heightened emotions and the SB were all drawing her Damon. Between 4x01 and 4x06 we can see the internal struggle Elena was having, her head was saying Stefan, Stefan, Stefan, but her heart and sub conscience was saying Damon. This conflict was shown best in 4x04 IMO and when she had the werewolf venom in her system during her hallucinations. We know that the SB is rare within vamps, and that is created when the human has "feelings" for her sire. Love was never mentioned specifically by the witch in NO, but IMO that is just semantics, it is implied that the SB is created by strong emotions (deep love), something outside of the norm, otherwise it would be more prevalent amongst the vamp community. In short, Elena was falling in love with Damon all along, vampirism, and the SB just sped up the process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 20:16:18 GMT -5
When I said that Elena has only been with vampires, I was trying not to get too specific and say that Elena has only SLEPT with vampires. I remember her giving her virginity to Stefan, seeing a picture of Katherine, and freaking out and running away. Elena has only slept with dead guys. That's what I was trying to say. I'm not sure if anyone actually spelled this out on the show, but it was insinuated that Elena never went that far with Matt. Elena's sire bond to Damon in Season 4 was definitely inconsistent. She did Damon's bidding when her body rejected everything but blood directly from the vein, but she still wanted to be with Stefan during the early weeks. It's almost like Damon made the sire bond turn into something involving love when he found out she was sired to him. I really hope Season 6 brings a reckoning for Elena and she moves on with ANYONE but Damon, except for Stefan. For me, Stelena is long over. I think it's over for the writers, too. A lot has happened, in the past season especially, that puts Stefan and Elena too far apart. If they do get together again, it will be brief. I hope that they become good friends in the future. To me that's the best form of Stelena. Hi, Yeah, I am not sure that the show has said either way whether Elena was a virgin or not when she slept with Stefan, and as far as the SB goes, it was definately inconsistent where the writing was concerned, which is why there is the endless debates about it even now. My take on the whole SB Sl is this; Elena's head wanted to be with Stefan, but she had strong feelings for Damon, and her head was over ruling her heart so she "chose" Stefan. As a vampire, she tried to cement that choice to Stefan in 4x01, but her heart, heightened emotions and the SB were all drawing her Damon. Between 4x01 and 4x06 we can see the internal struggle Elena was having, her head was saying Stefan, Stefan, Stefan, but her heart and sub conscience was saying Damon. This conflict was shown best in 4x04 IMO and when she had the werewolf venom in her system during her hallucinations. We know that the SB is rare within vamps, and that is created when the human has "feelings" for her sire. Love was never mentioned specifically by the witch in NO, but IMO that is just semantics, it is implied that the SB is created by strong emotions (deep love), something outside of the norm, otherwise it would be more prevalent amongst the vamp community. In short, Elena was falling in love with Damon all along, vampirism, and the SB just sped up the process. I think the whole thing about the sire bond being tied to Elena's emotions made the sire bond issue more confusing than it needed to be. At any rate, Season 4 was a bad time to start up Delena. Some things in the final arc of Season 5 brought up the sire bond discussion again because Elena had strange daydreams about having sex with Damon, and there was a conversation later in that episode about who was controlling who when it came to them being together. Then there's the fact that Elena ignores Damon's murderous behavior because, "I love you!" All of that was practically an invitation to restart the SB debate. One conclusion I came to is that Delena happened when it did, and the way it did, to show shippers how and why the relationship never would have worked. There are a lot of teenage fangirls who think it's a good thing to fall for a bad guy and try to change him. Ian Somerhalder actually stood up to one of those shippers in an interview by listing all of the terrible things that Stefan and Damon brought into Elena's life. IS is not a fan of Stelena or Delena, and it's not because he dated Nina Dobrev. While he's fine with the drama that the love triangle creates, he might have been trying to prepare fans for the end of Delena by explaining why he doesn't think Elena should be shipped with either of the Salvatore brothers. That or he's just tired of hearing from shippers on Twitter. If Elena is a character who is drawn to men who need to be redeemed, possibly as an exaggeration of her mercy and integrity as a human, that would be an endearing quality to have. Even if this is the case, I still think the final arc was a way to flush out Delena before the writers ended it, just like Katherine's arc in Elena's body was a way to make the majority of viewers hate Katherine so much that they couldn't wait for her to get killed. Julie Plec said that the writers had the first arc of Season 6 all mapped out long before Season 5 ended, so I don't think there will be any inconsistencies between the final arc of Season 5 and the first five episodes of Season 6. Whatever the characters did or went through in the final arc will somehow influence what happens in upcoming episodes.
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Post by napoli on Jun 26, 2014 21:43:26 GMT -5
@seiwriter I really liked the statement that some think it's a good thing to fall for a bad guy and try to change him. The bonus of having SE not together was having Stefan accept his ripper ways and being able to live with his guilt without having Elena as a crutch or anyone else trying to change him. It was a great season for Stefan that allowed his character to be fully developed and accept the most heinous part of himself so it can't control him anymore. The best part is that Stefan did it for himself and not for anyone else.
Damon's lack of character development is tied to Elena. S1-4 Damon couldn't/wouldn't change for her because he liked who he was. S5 Damon didn't have to change because Elena provided no challenge for him to change. What's been lacking in s1-5 is Damon believing that he should change for himself. Blaming Katherine for all his mistakes was a low point for Damon because he needs to accept that he alone is responsible for his own wrongdoings and then choose to change for himself.
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Post by crimmyj on Jun 27, 2014 2:20:50 GMT -5
@seiwriter I really liked the statement that some think it's a good thing to fall for a bad guy and try to change him. The bonus of having SE not together was having Stefan accept his ripper ways and being able to live with his guilt without having Elena as a crutch or anyone else trying to change him. It was a great season for Stefan that allowed his character to be fully developed and accept the most heinous part of himself so it can't control him anymore. The best part is that Stefan did it for himself and not for anyone else. Damon's lack of character development is tied to Elena. S1-4 Damon couldn't/wouldn't change for her because he liked who he was. S5 Damon didn't have to change because Elena provided no challenge for him to change. What's been lacking in s1-5 is Damon believing that he should change for himself. Blaming Katherine for all his mistakes was a low point for Damon because he needs to accept that he alone is responsible for his own wrongdoings and then choose to change for himself. Precisely. That is when one truly finds redemption/atonement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 9:09:03 GMT -5
@seiwriter I really liked the statement that some think it's a good thing to fall for a bad guy and try to change him. The bonus of having SE not together was having Stefan accept his ripper ways and being able to live with his guilt without having Elena as a crutch or anyone else trying to change him. It was a great season for Stefan that allowed his character to be fully developed and accept the most heinous part of himself so it can't control him anymore. The best part is that Stefan did it for himself and not for anyone else. Damon's lack of character development is tied to Elena. S1-4 Damon couldn't/wouldn't change for her because he liked who he was. S5 Damon didn't have to change because Elena provided no challenge for him to change. What's been lacking in s1-5 is Damon believing that he should change for himself. Blaming Katherine for all his mistakes was a low point for Damon because he needs to accept that he alone is responsible for his own wrongdoings and then choose to change for himself. Precisely. That is when one truly finds redemption/atonement. You're absolutely right. I'm not sure I agree, though, that Elena didn't make Damon want to change. He wanted to change up until he had her as a girlfriend. Then Elena ignored most of his behavior until she found out that he murdered Aaron's family. The break-up happened when Elena called what Damon did "unacceptable," and Damon let her go because Elena trying to convince him to stop getting revenge on the Whitmore family was a deal-breaker for Damon. He refused to do away with that part of himself for Elena, no matter how heinous it was. It was crazy that Damon was the first one to call the relationship "toxic," when the only way that Elena really affected Damon was by making him want to be the kind of guy who deserves a girl like her. He dumped her because it got to a point where he didn't want to be a better person for her anymore. The novelty of the relationship wore off and Damon wanted to return to who he was before he met Elena. That or Damon figured that since he got the girl, he could go back to killing people as long as she never found out. Of course the secrecy didn't last very long. I think Damon was in a redeemable mood when he "put on his hero hair" and drove to his own death, knowing full well that he might not come back. The problem was that he let Elena go with him. That was not heroic. Then again, Damon was never really a hero. In the beginning, all he wanted was Katherine. When he found out he couldn't have Katherine, all he wanted was Elena. Nothing else mattered, except maybe his brother. Elena tried to redeem Damon, but he had to want to be redeemed. It's hard to say whether he did or not, or if he just wanted to be redeemed once upon a time because of Elena. I think the fact that Elena wanted to stay with Damon and try harder with him is proof that Elena's need to save people was exaggerated when she became a vampire. When Elena was still human in Season 3, she never gave up on bringing back Stefan's humanity, but at the same time she was falling in love with Damon. The reappearance of Ripper and everything he did made Elena start drifting apart from Stefan when she was human, but now the part of her with a low tolerance for homicidal behavior isn't as strong as the part of her that wants to save everyone.
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Post by demetra on Jun 27, 2014 10:23:22 GMT -5
When I said that Elena has only been with vampires, I was trying not to get too specific and say that Elena has only SLEPT with vampires. I remember her giving her virginity to Stefan, seeing a picture of Katherine, and freaking out and running away. Elena has only slept with dead guys. That's what I was trying to say. I'm not sure if anyone actually spelled this out on the show, but it was insinuated that Elena never went that far with Matt. It seemed pretty clear to me that Elena and Matt were each other's firsts. In the pilot, Elena tells Stefan that she and Matt felt they owed it to each other to take it to the next step--that's how she realized they were lacking a truly passionate connection. I would agree, though, that Elena does not take that step unless she recognizes that she is in love with the person she's with.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 12:46:23 GMT -5
When I said that Elena has only been with vampires, I was trying not to get too specific and say that Elena has only SLEPT with vampires. I remember her giving her virginity to Stefan, seeing a picture of Katherine, and freaking out and running away. Elena has only slept with dead guys. That's what I was trying to say. I'm not sure if anyone actually spelled this out on the show, but it was insinuated that Elena never went that far with Matt. It seemed pretty clear to me that Elena and Matt were each other's firsts. In the pilot, Elena tells Stefan that she and Matt felt they owed it to each other to take it to the next step--that's how she realized they were lacking a truly passionate connection. I would agree, though, that Elena does not take that step unless she recognizes that she is in love with the person she's with. When Elena said "take it to the next step," could she have meant dating in general, since they were friends for a long time first? I guess it doesn't matter either way. I don't want to debate whether Elena was a virgin. The writers probably didn't answer that question either way because they didn't want fans to focus on it. I think you're right that Elena will only sleep with someone she's in love with. She's had plenty of chances to pull a Caroline, but Elena never slept with anyone just to have sex or to get back at someone who left her.
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Post by demetra on Jun 27, 2014 13:28:54 GMT -5
My interpretation could also have been skewed by the original books, in which Elena starts off much closer to TV Caroline as a character, a bit of a high school Queen Bee, and then actually transforms into a source of light and hope as a result of meeting Stefan and Damon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 6:05:17 GMT -5
ADDITIONAL DAYS
- Favorite song from season 5?
Birdy - Wings
- Favorite storyline from season 5? (The travelers, the whitmore experiences, the Silas/Qhetsyah, Amara, or others)...
Silas/Quetsiyah and crazy pants aka Amara, although all three killed off too soon
- Favorite scenario from season 5?
mmmm....difficult, I was happy for Jer and Bon, so I really liked their love scenes
- Favorite and least favorite characters - I know we have these already, but I think we should make a distintion for male and female...
male: Wonder twin Luke, Markos, Dr. Creepenstein Wes female: Wonder twin Liv, Caitlin, Katharina
- Favourite actress and actor this season?
PW played 3 roles AND HE DELIVERED....Steffie, Tom, Silas
Janina Gavankar played Quetsiyah so good, it was a pleasure watching her.
And on a sidenote, that actor who played Dr. Whitmore was exceptionally beautiful Trevor St. John. OMG OMG.....such a beautiful man!
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Post by demetra on Jul 7, 2014 8:59:10 GMT -5
The thing about the wonder twins is: who is their coven?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 9:55:53 GMT -5
The thing about the wonder twins is: who is their coven? Yes demetra that is the million $$$ question, we only saw three of them this season. Whole story makes no sense somehow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 9:59:57 GMT -5
ADDITIONAL DAYS - Favorite song from season 5? Birdy - Wings - Favorite storyline from season 5? (The travelers, the whitmore experiences, the Silas/Qhetsyah, Amara, or others)... Silas/Quetsiyah and crazy pants aka Amara, although all three killed off too soon - Favorite scenario from season 5? mmmm....difficult, I was happy for Jer and Bon, so I really liked their love scenes - Favorite and least favorite characters - I know we have these already, but I think we should make a distintion for male and female... male: Wonder twin Luke, Markos, Dr. Creepenstein Wes female: Wonder twin Liv, Caitlin, Katharina - Favourite actress and actor this season? PW played 3 roles AND HE DELIVERED....Steffie, Tom, Silas Janina Gavankar played Quetsiyah so good, it was a pleasure watching her. And on a sidenote, that actor who played Dr. Whitmore was exceptionally beautiful Trevor St. John. OMG OMG.....such a beautiful man! there I googled him en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_St._JohnFilmography[edit] Primetime series The Vampire Diaries (Dr. Whitmore, 2013) awwwwwwwwwwww, so much beauty... de.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A9mSs3EMtbpTjEEAQ4wzCQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTB1NHEyMmtrBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkA1VJREVDMDFfMQ--?_adv_prop=image&fr=chr-greentree_gc&va=trevor+st+john
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Post by demetra on Jul 12, 2014 9:22:43 GMT -5
Just a comment that I have been re-watching Season Three. Elena's "You lied" in 5x22 to Damon is also connected back to the promise he made to her in Season Three. After Klaus compels Stefan to turn off his humanity, Elena sees him transformed into The Ripper, and Stefan viciously attacks and bites her. In the previous episode, Ric had told Damon to take a beat in his developing relationship with Elena, Katherine showed up and Damon left Mystic Falls with her to locate Michael. After the horror of Stefan's attack against her, Elena woke up in the hospital all alone to find a nurse not helping her but draining her of her blood for Klaus. Damon does rescue her, but much of the worst has already happened to Elena. Back at the Salvatore mansion, she has realized that Stefan's love for her is based in his humanity. With that switched off, she tells Damon that she knows Stefan is "gone." Elena asks Damon: where were you? De facto, how could he have left her so vulnerable? Damon promises Elena that he will never leave her again. In addition to his flirt, that seems to be when Elena accepts his pledge and allows him into her life. That was the reciprocity underlying Delena. The warning inherent in Season Three for next year comes in a later episode, when Elena first realizes and then declares to Stefan, who has been chained up, starved and tortured by Lexi in an attempt to speed up his recovery, that he needs to find the will to turn his humanity back on, because she will not love a ghost for the rest of her life. I believe that episode was written by Rebecca Sonneshine. We'll see if there's any corporate memory left for Elena from those turning points.
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