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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 20, 2013 20:32:35 GMT -5
So, I'm intrigued. I love Kat and I love Damon. They are probably my two favourite characters on TVD. It is not surprising as I feel they have very similar character traits. What surprises me most is those who hate Damon, but love Kat? I would love to know why, please feel free to express your views because I would love to hear them.
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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 20, 2013 20:54:37 GMT -5
I love Katherine because she is major entertainment for the show. She is a kick ass villain that is always one step ahead of everyone and she seduces everyone which is also fun to watch. You never know what she is up too. With all that said you peel away the layers she has an incredible, painful heartwrenching backstory that you can identify and understand what made her cold as ice. You want to root for her. You want to see her become a better person and at the same time if she doesn't it is fun at the same time. I think the issue is prior to season four if you would compare the choice elena or Katherine elena was always the better choice because she never treated stefen badly. However Elena's recent behavior and Katherine's recent growth may make this interesting.
I don't hate damon I quite enjoy his character however compared to stefen he is the wrong choice for elena. The only time that he was better for elena was when stefen was the ripper and really he was doing that for his brother so technically damon should not have taken advantage of that situation. Damon is funny And he is good at one liners. I see why people want them to be together. The writers really gave damon a lot last year and this year so we were able to see him with women. I liked him with rose and andi when he wasn't pushing them away but even that at times was not the best relationship. Neither have great qualities. I think we have seen that Katherine ripped his heart out and some issues with stefen but maybe if I knew more of damons back story I would feel more empathy for him. I think that is the main difference.
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 21, 2013 4:07:03 GMT -5
Katherine and Damon for me have been the hook that keeps me watching this show. Without them, TVD would seriously lose it's appeal and I doubt I would watch. I am especially loving human Kat, all the best scenes so far this season have had her in them. I have shipped these two on and off throughout the series but I have come to the conclusion that I love Kat on her own. Being in love didn't suit her, I hated the Kat/Elijah story. Kat and Damon wouldn't work either, their personalities are too similar.
Katvolley13: I'm not sure Katherine has grown as a character, she still has the same outlook "better you die than I", She will always look out for herself and put her own survival first and that is why she has survived so long. I love this about her, She owns it and is unapologetic and I'm not sure I want her to change. Being human may redeem her, we will see, but I don't care, I love her either way. Kat as a character is relateable, her backstory is heartbreaking but her intelligence, survival instincts and selfishness were a part of her when she was human.
I think this is why I relate to Damon and love his characterization, because he is relateable. He is not perfect, he makes mistakes, but he learns from them eventually, lol. I love watching him struggle to be better and I love that he knows he is not perfect and doesn't pretend to be. I agree his backstory so far has not really given us an insight as to why he has all these internal issues with self esteem etc, so far the writers have given Damon the least backstory, I hope that changes this season. But, like Kat, he can be badass, he is witty and intelligent and he always has a plan. Watching Damon win some lose some is entertaining. Like I said, these characters are very similar, they share personality traits which makes sense to me as to why I love them both. This characterization obviously appeals to me much more than the Stefan, Elena, Bonnie or Matt characterisation.
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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 21, 2013 19:56:05 GMT -5
I completely agree she has along way to go to redeem herself and like you I find myself slightly wanting her to stay the way she is because the survivor part and her ability to be selfish no matter what it cost her or who it affects has saved her however I am enjoying the moments like coming back to save Jeremy because that did not suit a purpose. One could argue when she saved damon in season 2 she wanted his attention and this was hardly a selfless act but she had no reason to save Jeremy and matt.
Damon makes a lot of mistakes and he does not always learn from them i.e. putting the white oak stake in the fire place or tedious little things. I do agree he is being a little bit better with elena. Again it is just comparing the choice to damon and stefen and who is the better choice. Is damon entertaining and funny ofcourse. But when you ask me who is better for Elena it is stefen. I am a huge Katherine fan so again I use to think elena was way better than Katherine but she has acted exactly like her last season due to damon telling her to switch off her humanity. Now did she know what she was doing whatever. All in all damon needs a story other than chasing after elena. I rather him be with bonnie or even have some cool story having nothing to do with elena and then I would completely agree with you. At this point all I have seen damon as is a trouble making third wheel who is funny and amusing.
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 22, 2013 8:58:51 GMT -5
I completely agree she has along way to go to redeem herself and like you I find myself slightly wanting her to stay the way she is because the survivor part and her ability to be selfish no matter what it cost her or who it affects has saved her however I am enjoying the moments like coming back to save Jeremy because that did not suit a purpose. One could argue when she saved damon in season 2 she wanted his attention and this was hardly a selfless act but she had no reason to save Jeremy and matt. Damon makes a lot of mistakes and he does not always learn from them i.e. putting the white oak stake in the fire place or tedious little things. I do agree he is being a little bit better with elena. Again it is just comparing the choice to damon and stefen and who is the better choice. Is damon entertaining and funny ofcourse. But when you ask me who is better for Elena it is stefen. I am a huge Katherine fan so again I use to think elena was way better than Katherine but she has acted exactly like her last season due to damon telling her to switch off her humanity. Now did she know what she was doing whatever. All in all damon needs a story other than chasing after elena. I rather him be with bonnie or even have some cool story having nothing to do with elena and then I would completely agree with you. At this point all I have seen damon as is a trouble making third wheel who is funny and amusing. I would disagree that Damon is chasing Elena, because he has Elena, he has had Elena since 4x07, He just couldn't believe it was true. But I agree, His story arc has been all about saving/ curing/ breaking SB. I think we are going to see a Damon storyline this season that doesn't revolve around Elena as such. From some of the spoilers/spec, we are going to be delving more into the Salvatore history, and I hope we get some perspective on what Damon was truly like as human (before Kat), and what in his History has made him who he is. I don't think what we find out is going to be good as far as Damon is concerned and whatever it is is going to test him to the max. I am interested to see how Damon is going to handle himself when all these revelations come to the fore. Can he maintain all the growth he has achieved so far? Has he learned lessons from the past? will he continue to get the job done? will he hold on to his humanity? I guess we will find out. Kat has showed us a few instances now of her ability to show thought for others and that she is capable of emotion. The Damon thing you mentioned, When talking to Stefan afterwards she talks about her humanity forcing it's way back in, and sometimes she lets it. She brought the cure to Damon She gave the cure to Elijah- to prove she loved him? ?? Saving jer and Matt- although I think she realised that she was better off with them than without them I think she can be saved, but so far she is on the beginning of the road to redemption, and like you said, she has a long way to go. As far as the shippy stuff, I will have to agree to disagree because that is a different debate altogether and I could go on for hours lol. IDK, I think the shippy stuff is the reason people hate Damons character so much, I don't think it is because he is selfish or does bad things, because the same fans love these characteristics in Kat. The only difference is kat isn't in the running for Elenas heart. lol. katvolley13 " At this point, all I have seen Damon as is a trouble making third wheel, who is funny and amusing."
If we were talking about season one (second half) I would see your point but from season 2 onwards (after the Jer incident), Far from causing trouble for SE, he actively stopped himself from persuing Elena (Rose 2x08), and got with Rose and then Andie. He has been a major player in Team MF wrt the S&M curse, pass the moonstone, fighting Originals, infiltrating the council, protecting Elena etc, etc. If anything Stefan was the "third wheel" or spare part during all this. He was the most passive person of the group. Season 3 was spent looking for Stefan, trying to Kill Klaus, Helping Stefan with the coffins, fighting Esther, trying to kill the originals etc SE were not really a couple this season especially after Stefan tried to drive her off the bridge. I don't see how he was the third wheel here either. In season 4, Elena wouldn't leave him alone, She kept going to him behind Stefans back with all her issues and expecting him to sort them out. Damon told her in the end to call Stefan. He had accepted her decision and was planning on leaving MF. He had no intention of getting in between SE or causing trouble. Damon has been the biggest SE shipper of all.
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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 22, 2013 21:20:39 GMT -5
I think the shipping is the reason I cant get behind damon like I can Katherine or Klaus. Season one I fell in love with stefen and elena as they grew as a couple and I slowly watched damon come in between them and elena is not completely innocent in this by the way. Stefen did things as well to push her away but that is a whole other tangent but purely the reasons for not being able to get behind damon as much is because I have negative feelings towards him. However Klaus and Katherine were villains that may interfered slightly in the triangle neither had the impact damon has had.
I agree that damon did get involved with all those things that you mentioned above and this is when I enjoy damon when it has nothing to do with elena. The council stuff or the trying to help bonnie. The reason I said third wheel is because that is how it started stefen began dating elena. I had no idea that switching of the brothers was ever going to happen because I read the books up to midnight. I thought it was going to be like just a temptation. That is why I say a third part of the triangle. I think he deserves a crucial story line that is separate from the triangle so that people like me who love villians can see him in a different light.
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 23, 2013 16:33:05 GMT -5
Thanks for your perspective katvolley13. It's great to understand the place from which other posters are comming from. Even if there is only you I discussing You know, it's weird, I really enjoyed stefan, Elena and stelena at first and I hated Damon (exactly what the writers wanted), I rooted for Stefan when he vervained Damon and put him in the cell and I was gutted when Damon managed to summon Caroline to his rescue. Then he killed Lexie and so on and on, and hated Damon even more. I'm not sure when my feelings towards Damon started to change but a few things stand out to me: The vulnerability in his eyes when Stefan agrees to help him get in the tomb to be rid of him= He looked genuinely hurt. The Georgia road trip showed he was capable of some compassion (saved Elena and seemed concerned for her) The complete hurt and betrayal he felt when Stefan and Elena lied to him and broke his trust. All the above were meant to show the viewers that he was capable of emotion even though he hid it well behind huge emotional walls, and there was more to this character than a one note villain. As for the romance, the scene with Elena in Fool me once, when he was placing her vervain necklace back around her neck jumped out of the screen and crackled with sexual tension. This was the first time that DE even entered my head as a possibility, and totally surprised me in a good way. From then on, Damon was the one who kept me watching, and kept me on the edge of my seat wondering what he was going to do or say next. I had not read any of the books so I had no idea of the premise of the show so I was completely unspoiled. I found series 1-3 on netflix back in January when I was looking for something to watch and randomly found TVD, I had never heard of it before. I quickly became an addict and marathoned the lot in two weeks, catching up with 4x11 in real time with USA. So, I am relatively new to the fandom too, so I am quite shocked at the passion in which people love, hate, defend and attack the characters on this show. I have surprised myself at the lengths I am willing to go to defend my favourite character.
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Post by Ruby on Oct 23, 2013 17:38:11 GMT -5
Thanks for your perspective katvolley13. It's great to understand the place from which other posters are comming from. Even if there is only you I discussing You know, it's weird, I really enjoyed stefan, Elena and stelena at first and I hated Damon (exactly what the writers wanted), I rooted for Stefan when he vervained Damon and put him in the cell and I was gutted when Damon managed to summon Caroline to his rescue. Then he killed Lexie and so on and on, and hated Damon even more. I'm not sure when my feelings towards Damon started to change but a few things stand out to me: The vulnerability in his eyes when Stefan agrees to help him get in the tomb to be rid of him= He looked genuinely hurt. The Georgia road trip showed he was capable of some compassion (saved Elena and seemed concerned for her) The complete hurt and betrayal he felt when Stefan and Elena lied to him and broke his trust. All the above were meant to show the viewers that he was capable of emotion even though he hid it well behind huge emotional walls, and there was more to this character than a one note villain. As for the romance, the scene with Elena in Fool me once, when he was placing her vervain necklace back around her neck jumped out of the screen and crackled with sexual tension. This was the first time that DE even entered my head as a possibility, and totally surprised me in a good way. From then on, Damon was the one who kept me watching, and kept me on the edge of my seat wondering what he was going to do or say next. I had not read any of the books so I had no idea of the premise of the show so I was completely unspoiled. I found series 1-3 on netflix back in January when I was looking for something to watch and randomly found TVD, I had never heard of it before. I quickly became an addict and marathoned the lot in two weeks, catching up with 4x11 in real time with USA. So, I am relatively new to the fandom too, so I am quite shocked at the passion in which people love, hate, defend and attack the characters on this show. I have surprised myself at the lengths I am willing to go to defend my favourite character. Whats crazy as a viewer I never thought of Damon as a romantic interest for Elena. I loved Elena and Stefan together but I also saw the show for what it was. I felt bad for Damon when he found out Katherine wasnt in the tomb or when he felt betrayed by stefan and elena after he saw they werent out to help him at first. The first time i saw real chemistry between damon and elena was at the Miss Mystic Falls and they danced. It was amazing but I still did not see them being together. Then all of a sudden they started hinting that he was in love with her and i found it so messed up when after Stefan saved Damon he went and kissed Elena(Katherine) Then to top it off he try to make Elena feel guilty when she confessed that she was surprised he actually thought she would kiss him back. When season 2 came and Elena was rescued from Elijah..the scene where Damon smiles at her and she runs down into Stefan's arms just broke my heart for him. there when I was totally convinced he was truly in love with her and bam he confesses he loves her and compels her to forget but still I couldnt see them together. he was constantly throwing it in Stefan's face indirectly or what not. When they finally started hinting that they could be together i was like ehhh. I knew I wouldnt be on board with Damon and Elena together when they made out in the motel. I was just so like yep that was my confirmation that i wouldnt be able to ship them. It doesnt mean I dont like Damon. I enjoy Damon's character very much but I just cant ever be on board with him and elena. I just tolerate it. As far as Katherine and Damon go..I like both characters so thats why i couldnt debate with you on that haha lol
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 23, 2013 18:30:28 GMT -5
As far as SE and DE are concerned, it is always going to be subjective, and I accept that. It's whatever floats your boat, lol. I love Kat too, she is a close 2nd to Damon, because I feel they are very similar characters. I maybe shouldv'e named the debate thread differently, the title is probably misleading.
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Post by Ruby on Oct 23, 2013 18:34:09 GMT -5
As far as SE and DE are concerned, it is always going to be subjective, and I accept that. It's whatever floats your boat, lol. I love Kat too, she is a close 2nd to Damon, because I feel they are very similar characters. I maybe shouldv'e named the debate thread differently, the title is probably misleading. its ok it happens alot =)
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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 23, 2013 19:20:58 GMT -5
Yeah I think damon is funny and great and occasionally I feel bad for him with the elena situation but again I just don't ship him with elena. I love kat more than damon and I like Klaus more probably because the accent and again I am not mad. I also love when villains are prepared and don't mess up and I feel the writers write Klaus Elijah and Katherine in this manner. Damon they are trying to show the vulnerable side or that he makes bad decisions. However one of his screw ups that had me laughing hysterically was going into conners trailer when meridith said is that a bomb no it is a kitten lol.
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 23, 2013 19:54:36 GMT -5
Yep, that scene was hilarious. He does get himself into some scrapes, but he always gets himself out, and usually gets the job done in the end while entertaining in the process. I love Klaus too, but being British myself, the accent isn't the draw for me. Its the devilish dimples when he smiles. How can anyone be scared of that? lol.
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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 25, 2013 22:05:37 GMT -5
I love the little eye thing both damon and Klaus do but when Klaus does it while saying something with an accent I probably would have been compelled and mince meat if I was around him LOL. I enjoy debates I never get upset with anyone who has a different opinion than me in fact My boyfriend and I are on opposite sides of politics and love debating all the time lol. So anytime you want to have a discussion just let me know!!
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 26, 2013 5:11:53 GMT -5
Love the Southern drawl that IS sometimes let slip in the character of Damon. Makes my knees a bit wobbly. I love discussion too, and I have enjoyed chatting with you too and @ruby.
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shoe20
Team Stefan
Posts: 1,739
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Post by shoe20 on Dec 7, 2013 19:43:19 GMT -5
As far as SE and DE are concerned, it is always going to be subjective, and I accept that. It's whatever floats your boat, lol. I love Kat too, she is a close 2nd to Damon, because I feel they are very similar characters. I maybe shouldv'e named the debate thread differently, the title is probably misleading. Great exchange...really.this is a post I just put on VDnet....dont' know how but I ended up here. LOL The writers have always painted Stefan with the "White" brush and Damon with the "Black" one. One team rooting for the "hero" that feels guilt, and want's to change...but can't. The other Brother masking his guilt and actions with the "I don't care...not sorry" attitude. One ship see's Stefan as the "hero" that deeply wants to be better and overcome his blood lust.....The other team sees Damon as the character who masks his emotions with a steel coat of "what I want. when I want" afraid to let anyone close because he doesn't want the pain that comes with caring....This is what I love about the series....so we take the time to pick apart every sentence and scene to support our choice.....I honestly just pick the easy side to support. (not by accident) Most posters on this site are very well versed in every Ep of the series and have the memory to pull up past scenes and lines to support their argument......Bottom line is for all of us ....It's just plain fun, and we owe it all to the great actors that give use the material to work with. LOL Trying to provide incite to where I'm coming from. really glad you and ana are posting on this site....and consider both of you family. =)
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