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Post by Ruby on Oct 6, 2013 8:21:07 GMT -5
Okay so now that we are kicking off the season and getting more and more tvd fans here, I felt this was necessary This is the OFFICIAL DEBATING THREAD
Purpose: To continue a discussion/debate that might be going on in a neutral board such as: The Episode Discussions/The General TVD discussions area etc This is the place it will be moved to if Me or the Mods see it necessary if debating occurs in the Neutral threads Rules:
- If you see a question or comments being made in a neutral thread that you want to further elaborate on but do not want it to end up causing a debate discussion in the thread you will move it forward here.
- Try to seek permission from the member FIRST who made the post you want to debate.
it. - If this post is in a shipper thread and you are NOT that shipper fan its MANDATORY to get permission from the member first before you wish to elaborate on their comment. The reason being is because if a member is commenting in their shipper thread its because thats their SAFE HAVEN. Thats where they can go without worrying that someone who does not like or care for their ship will go in and make them have to defend their comment, so try not to debate about something thats in the Shipper Threads. (continue to 4)
- If you feel the need to DO NOT comment in the thread rather send them a private message. This person may not want to Debate the comment that was made but may grant you permission to move it anyway so others can discuss it if they want.
- if The Mods or I see the debate is going in circles in here or is getting too far we will comment to let you know you each have one more post to close out your case.
INSTRUCTIONSWhen writing a post regarding a comment you want to elaborate on you will do so in the following manner so everything is clear Comment/Questions responding to: (Write the post you wish to elaborate on ) Posted by: (Write member's username) Approved to move the comment? Yes/No Post From the (write the thread you are taking it from) thread
Try to tag the person so they know you placed it in the thread. The write your Pros and Cons about the comment. What you agree and disagree with so they know exactly what you talking about. if you debate a comment that you wasn't given permission to, you will receive a warning. Remember 3 Warnings and you are BannedAdditional InfoEveryone on the board must understand not everyone likes to debate about their favorite ships (EX: Stelena vs Delena) but just rather enjoy the positivity of the board and I can understand that. If you do not wish to debate a comment clarify that when you are making your comment that its your opinion and then end it with *ND*. Example: IMO I believe this person wanted to get away from that person so they wouldnt have to suffer consequences... *ND* (not debatable)But ALSO UNDERSTAND be sensitive to other members when you are in the Neutral Threads. Don't go bashing a character knowing there are members who really like that character and then get mad when they might want to debate it. So try to sugar coat your responses if you feel it might be too much. Members like Napoli and Deb are two at great example. They will comment about something and if its too raw for someone's liking they announce they will move it over to the rants section or the SE bubble. I apologize this is so long but I wanted to be clear as possible. If you have any questions or if you see a member who continues to debate in neutral threads after being aware of this thread you are allowed to report their post and/or message us. Please remember the official debating rules:1. When or if Debating, please make sure it is in a debate thread. 2. Make sure to not insult a poster or a poster's opinion. It is okay to disagree with them but DO NOT under any circumstances make them feel or imply that their opinions are worthless or of non importance. Give them your reason as to why you might disagree but do not state their opinion is stupid etc. 3. Make sure to not jump into a Shipper's thread to talk negatively against the pertaining ship. Each ship thread are pro ship: meaning no bashing allowed. If you have the need to vent you can do it in the venting section.
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Post by Ruby on Oct 6, 2013 8:54:53 GMT -5
Well if you have to breaker of the bad news. It's not going to go well. Remember Elena has been through this before with Bonnie in S2. And it probably doesn't sit well with Damon because of it. And not to mention Damon actually cares for Bonnie. And also Elena turned her humanity off last time there was a death. And not too many people do know how to handle someone that is crying. when exactly did damon ever show he cares for bonnie (other than in the books) or anyone else but elena? all i can see is he is trying to endure elena's friends to please her when exactly did damon ever show he cares for bonnie (other than in the books) or anyone else but elena? all i can see is he is trying to endure elena's friends to please her oh boy i want to explain but is this the right place to do it? Comment/Questions responding to: look above Posted by: Anna KikiApproved to move the comment? Admin Moved itPost From the 5x03 Thread...http://tvdshow.proboards.com/post/new/154#ixzz2gwwLCRHQ Admin Comments: I moved this over because the comment was made then a question was made regarding the comment and Anna did the right thing by questioning if this was the right place to respond. (after in another thread i had mentioned i was going to make this thread)
This is also an example of what me or the mods might do if we see it fit =)
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Post by Anna on Oct 7, 2013 0:30:59 GMT -5
Well if you have to breaker of the bad news. It's not going to go well. Remember Elena has been through this before with Bonnie in S2. And it probably doesn't sit well with Damon because of it. And not to mention Damon actually cares for Bonnie. And also Elena turned her humanity off last time there was a death. And not too many people do know how to handle someone that is crying. when exactly did damon ever show he cares for bonnie (other than in the books) or anyone else but elena? all i can see is he is trying to endure elena's friends to please her oh boy i want to explain but is this the right place to do it? Comment/Questions responding to: look above Posted by: Anna KikiApproved to move the comment? Admin Moved itPost From the 5x03 Thread...http://tvdshow.proboards.com/post/new/154#ixzz2gwwLCRHQ Thanks Ruby Okay to get in this Damon has always been very subtle with how and who he cares for. He is not about big declarations and labels. Damon doesn't trust easily. That's the person he is. That is the person he has learned to become in order to survive, to protect himself. (Especially after everything that happened in 1864) Now I believe trust is one of the biggest factors in any relationship. This explains Damon's lack of relationships and hence the lack of caring associated with any relationship. So its true we don't see a lot of Damon caring...but that doesn't mean Damon doesn't care. Firstly: Damon cares enough to thank Bonnie.
Damon: " Thank you. The device in Emily`s spell could have killed me. I don`t take what you did lightly, so — thank you." Bonnie: "I did it for Elena." Damon: "I know that, but I`m still very grateful. And... I owe you." Season 1, Episode 22 - Founder`s Day (Season`s Finale) (gif credit: roplusglam) "Hey judgy, thank you." Damon Salvatore, Season 2, Episode 06 - Plan B (gif credit: idontownemotion) Secondly: Damon cares about her life.
(gif credit: bennettsalvatore) He came up with an alternate plan to fake her death so that Bonnie wouldn't die. (gif credit: bennettsalvatore) He fed her his blood to save her. (gif credit: sammystheboyking) He stayed to make sure she was safe. Lastly: Does this look like a person who doesn't care? (gif credit: iansmolderholic) Look at the desperation in the second gif and the relief in the third that she's okay. And just some other little tid bits: (gif credit: roplusglam) He heals Caroline despite knowing it would do nothing to their relationship. (Don't know what I should call them, but its something). He didn't have to go through with it. Elena said she didn't want him to do it. But he still did. For Bonnie (and for Caroline)
(image credit: mysticonfessions) I just wanted to add this cause its cute.
Damon didn't have to do any of the above things but he did cause he cares for Bonnie. He could have left her die trying to kill Klaus in 2x19, but he didn't, he came up with a plan to fake her death instead. He refused to leave the island until he found Bonnie the desperation in his voice always brings me chills. The emotion he shows in the frantic "I can't show up without Bonnie". I Have never seen Damon so desperate to find someone(despite Katherine). Like I get they won't ever have the perfect relationship. But you know to quote Caroline "No relationship is perfect." BUT the foundations are there. And lastly to quote Elena: (gif credit: holdingonmyheart)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 3:29:36 GMT -5
It isDamonlogic..Anna and thank you for showing it with these gifs....that is the thing with this Guy/Vampire / character....he speaksin his actions more than his words
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Post by Anna on Oct 7, 2013 4:40:21 GMT -5
I agree. Damon is not a very articulate person when it comes to relationships. But he is with his actions. The idiom "actions speak louder than words" is practically Damon's motto. Words are words. What do words do for you anyway. What did words do for Damon? They don't mean anything to him unless the action behind them is fulfilled. Damon doesn't trust words. So with that ideology why expect him to trust his own words?
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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 10, 2013 21:34:25 GMT -5
I think this is part of the season six bamon plan as they have some chemistry in the books and they actually have a fanbase that ships them. I agree that damon's charm is that he is a bad boy that occasionally is good and has heart at times. I think sometimes they either don't know who he is or he does not know who he is. I mean he is a mess and has done horrible things so occasionally making up for that should not make people swoon and say he is the best choice for women. I enjoy his humor and his actions make me laugh. Would I choose him as a boyfriend absolutely not. Would I choose ian as a boyfriend absolutely lol. Damon's actions have not been that great and some things have been good. Do the pro's outweigh the con's anna?
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 12, 2013 15:46:27 GMT -5
IMO, the pros do outweigh the cons, just as the good character traits outweigh his bad.
He is fiercely loyal to those close to him He is generous He is selfless He has a huge capacity for love He is intelligent He is tenacious He has a great sense of humour/ wit He is courageous and brave He can dance He is charming He is a leader
VERSUS
He is reckless and impulsive He is over emotional He is petulant/childish He is violent/agressive He is naiive
I'm sure you guys can add to the list, but I hope you see my point. Yes Damon has done terrible things and has some awful character traits, but he also has lots of good him too. As the show goes on, I feel the good list gets longer, whilst the bad gets shorter as Damon continues down his road to redemption.
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Post by Ruby on Oct 12, 2013 15:54:42 GMT -5
Well I would put the selfless one off the pro list. Damon's character has said countless times that he is selfish. not always a bad thing bc him being selfish saved caroline and tyler from breaking the curse for klaus but also got aunt jenna caught up in the mix so i guess that goes with him being impulsive.
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Post by teppy1 on Oct 12, 2013 16:01:54 GMT -5
IMO, the pros do outweigh the cons, just as the good character traits outweigh his bad. He is fiercely loyal to those close to him He is generous He is selfless He has a huge capacity for love He is intelligent He is tenacious He has a great sense of humour/ wit He is courageous and brave He can dance He is charming He is a leader VERSUS He is reckless and impulsive He is over emotional He is petulant/childish He is violent/agressive He is naiive I'm sure you guys can add to the list, but I hope you see my point. Yes Damon has done terrible things and has some awful character traits, but he also has lots of good him too. As the show goes on, I feel the good list gets longer, whilst the bad gets shorter as Damon continues down his road to redemption. I think Damon could be all the positive things that you listed, but I do not think he has proven to be those things yet. I think there have been moments of selflessness, but just moments I would NOT say in general he is a selfless person nor would Damon or anyone else on this show.Too many actions contradict this. His sense of humor usually lacks tack,.but wit I will give him. I might say loyal... miiight although for some reason not feeling it. I can't think of why he is generous either. When has he been generous? I get what you are saying, but as far as redemption Damon has a loooooong way to for me to consider him a character that is at all "good" I do think Bonnie does bring it out the most in him though and if I would pair him with anyone it would be her because of this.
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 12, 2013 17:48:23 GMT -5
I would agree that I should have put the word "sometimes" next to some of the pro traits, I think Damon describes himself as selfish most of the time lol even though he has done many selfless things. I also agree that Damon still has a way to go before he can be truly redeemed and "good", and I'm glad, because that is exactly how I like him. He will always have the darkness in him to some degree, it was evident when he was human so I think he will have to live with that always. It's what gives him the edge over some of the other more powerful supernaturals in TVD.
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 12, 2013 18:13:49 GMT -5
Well I would put the selfless one off the pro list. Damon's character has said countless times that he is selfish. not always a bad thing bc him being selfish saved caroline and tyler from breaking the curse for klaus but also got aunt jenna caught up in the mix so i guess that goes with him being impulsive. As far as I remember, Klaus had already turned Jenna as a back-up vamp (remember, he already had Jules too), before he found out Damon had rescued Caroline and Tyler. Damon went to Klaus to tell him that he had rescued Care and Tyler so he would postpone the sacrifice, and Klaus showed him the video footage of a captive Jules. Damon thought He was the back-up vamp until Klaus snapped his neck and left. When he woke, Kat told him how she lured Jenna out of the house. Klaus planned to turn Jenna all along, it was nothing to do with Damons actions. Granted, Jenna would still have been alive as a vamp but for Damons actions, but Caroline would be dead, and so would Tyler.
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Post by Anna on Oct 14, 2013 3:14:30 GMT -5
I think this is part of the season six bamon plan as they have some chemistry in the books and they actually have a fanbase that ships them. I agree that damon's charm is that he is a bad boy that occasionally is good and has heart at times. I think sometimes they either don't know who he is or he does not know who he is. I mean he is a mess and has done horrible things so occasionally making up for that should not make people swoon and say he is the best choice for women. I enjoy his humor and his actions make me laugh. Would I choose him as a boyfriend absolutely not. Would I choose ian as a boyfriend absolutely lol. Damon's actions have not been that great and some things have been good. Do the pro's outweigh the con's anna? But this is who Damon is these are the things that make him who he is. Damon is lost Damon is insecure Damon is a mess Damon does terrible things. He does horrible things. I don't deny that. I won't ever deny that. But I do believe because he tries, because he attempts to do right to his wrongs because he tries to do whats right for his loved ones because of these reasons I believe his character can reach redemption. He fights to do the right thing and sometimes that can be the toughest part of life.
So maybe the people who swoon for him...its because they can relate to him. They can relate to their bad decision making. Relate to when they went down a road because they were backed into a corner. They can relate to trying to fix things but instead making a bigger mess of it. They can relate because we have found times when they had been irrational. They relate to Damon because he has so many flaws that people can't help but see him in themselves. Damon battles with himself. Just like we do constantly. He knows there is good. He knows there is bad. Just because we know its bad doesn't mean we always take the right path. And this is where people will either agree or disagree. Maybe you've felt you were put in a situation and you chose right. And that's why you can't relate to him. Maybe the choice was so easy for you that you didn't even think twice about making the decision. But to others this will be different. Maybe we needed to make the mistake. Because that's how we learn.
Does this make us a bad person?
One of my favourite quotes from Edison is "I have not failed. I have just found ten thousand ways that won't work." Life is a journey and its our mistakes that teach us.
I know this a show that its fiction and you can't take things in the literal sense. but you have to read between the lines, especially when concerning themes.
And lastly it's not about pro's outweighing the con's its the fact that he doesn't give up. That he still cares. That he continues on trying despite the urges to fall back into this other personality where he "pretends" to not care.
And this is why I love Damon Salvatore.
Does this mean I would date Damon. No. Because of the person I am I just don't see myself with a "Damon" ever. But I do see Elena with him. Yes. Because I see Damon characteristics in her and vice versa Elena characteristics in Damon. In my opinion together they bring out the better parts of each other.
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Post by Anna on Oct 14, 2013 5:33:39 GMT -5
I would agree that I should have put the word "sometimes" next to some of the pro traits, I think Damon describes himself as selfish most of the time lol even though he has done many selfless things. I also agree that Damon still has a way to go before he can be truly redeemed and "good", and I'm glad, because that is exactly how I like him. He will always have the darkness in him to some degree, it was evident when he was human so I think he will have to live with that always. It's what gives him the edge over some of the other more powerful supernaturals in TVD. I agree that Damon always describes himself as selfish when in fact he has done quite a few selfless acts. It kinda balances him out. He isn't truly selfish if he can be selfless.
(gif credit: iansmolderholic)
(gif credit: smolderhalderland)
(gif credit: iansmolderholic)
(gif credit: loganechollsarchive)
(gif credit: nobledonna)
"I don’t want to do this Elena, I’m not the good guy, remember? I’m the selfish one. I take what I want. I do what I want. I lie to my brother. I fall in love with his girl. I don’t do the right thing…but I have to do the right thing by you.” (gif credit: iansmolderholic)
(gif credit: iansmolderholic)
“I was supposed to do the right thing by you and the right thing by my brother…I’m setting you free. This is what I want. This is what will make me happy" (gif credit: iansmolderholic)
Here are some moments that I found. And there are more. BUt my net is being an ass and ain't loading so im gonna stop here.
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 14, 2013 6:41:27 GMT -5
I think this is part of the season six bamon plan as they have some chemistry in the books and they actually have a fanbase that ships them. I agree that damon's charm is that he is a bad boy that occasionally is good and has heart at times. I think sometimes they either don't know who he is or he does not know who he is. I mean he is a mess and has done horrible things so occasionally making up for that should not make people swoon and say he is the best choice for women. I enjoy his humor and his actions make me laugh. Would I choose him as a boyfriend absolutely not. Would I choose ian as a boyfriend absolutely lol. Damon's actions have not been that great and some things have been good. Do the pro's outweigh the con's anna? But this is who Damon is these are the things that make him who he is. Damon is lost Damon is insecure Damon is a mess Damon does terrible things. He does horrible things. I don't deny that. I won't ever deny that. But I do believe because he tries, because he attempts to do right to his wrongs because he tries to do whats right for his loved ones because of these reasons I believe his character can reach redemption. He fights to do the right thing and sometimes that can be the toughest part of life.
So maybe the people who swoon for him...its because they can relate to him. They can relate to their bad decision making. Relate to when they went down a road because they were backed into a corner. They can relate to trying to fix things but instead making a bigger mess of it. They can relate because we have found times when they had been irrational. They relate to Damon because he has so many flaws that people can't help but see him in themselves. Damon battles with himself. Just like we do constantly. He knows their is good. He knows there is bad. Just because we know its bad doesn't mean we always take the right path. And this is where people will either agree or disagree. Maybe you've felt you were put in a situation and you chose right. And that's why you can't relate to him. Maybe the choice was so easy for you that you didn't even think twice about making the decision. But to others this will be different. Maybe we needed to make the mistake. Because that's how we learn.
Does this make us a bad person?
One of my favourite quotes from Edison is "I have not failed. I have just found ten thousand ways that won't work." Life is a journey and its our mistakes that teach us.
I know this a show that its fiction and you can't take things in the literal sense. but you have to read between the lines, especially when concerning themes.
And lastly it's not about pro's outweighing the con's its the fact that he doesn't give up. That he still cares. That he continues on trying despite the urges to fall back into this other personality where he "pretends" to not care.
And this is why I love Damon Salvatore.
Does this mean I would date Damon. No. Because of the person I am I just don't see myself with a "Damon" ever. But I do see Elena with him. Yes. Because I see Damon characteristics in her and vice versa Elena characteristics in Damon. In my opinion together they bring out the better parts of each other. WORD!!!!! This is how I see the character of Damon too. Damon is trying to change despite almost all the other characters telling him that he is bad, evil, selfish, reckless, inhumane, uncaring etc. It is difficult to change or grow when others keep re-inforfcing your bad traits, but he does keep trying anyway.
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Post by deb on Oct 14, 2013 7:21:36 GMT -5
I have to agree that Elena brings the best in Damon (he still couldn't be selfless enough with her to let her go when she was sired but, many times, he was able to be good for her) but I can't agree that he brings the best in her... I used to like Elena because she was selfless and compassionate and she was able to put others before herself, she hurt when she hurt others, she was a heroine. After the sire bond mess, I can't like her, she's selfish, she puts herself before everyone else, she stopped caring about her friends, her brother, her ex-boyfriend (she was always so upset and always apologized whenever she hurt Damon but she never cared when she hurt Stefan in 04*23), she was cold enough to sleep Damon the day after Stefan broke up with her and she let Stefan get out of his house to do that... So, I can see THIS Elena characteristics in Damon but I still hope this isn't the real Elena because she's not better than Katherine right now, on the contrary...
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