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Post by demetra on Mar 8, 2015 17:04:10 GMT -5
It is a question of credibility. And you have to have a mythology that people can actually follow. Season Four in my opinion was saved by Elena's journey, at least up until the very last few episodes of the season. But the mythology with Professor Shadypants was impossible to remember. I still can't remember what the hell that tombstone does. Calcified blood of Qetsiyah what? It is not that you can't have supernatural elements, it is that there has to be some clear storytelling that visualizes the mythology. To save money perhaps there was often too much telling, not enough showing. If you can't introduce viewers to the episode with a short video recap, and you have to have your main characters take the first five minutes of every episode to provide exposition as to what came before, making them sound like complete idiots, well...you gotta writing problem. We know all this. Things have moved slowly this year, according to some, but I feel like I know whatis happening and why the characters are behaving as they do. Others with better cable packages perhaps have found other shows to watch in the mean time.
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Post by napoli on Mar 8, 2015 19:41:11 GMT -5
I followed the tweets from the convention in Atlanta yesterday and Paul said that too much has happened between Stefan and Elena for them to get back together. And he also said that he just filmed a sexscene with Stefan but wouldn't tell with whom. Given that they are filming ep 18 already I have even more doubts about Stelena I saw those Tweets, too. Let's start with the good news: Stefan is going to get some! YAY! His love life is pretty much as tragic as Ric's so I hope I can be generous enough to hope (that is two hopes) he'll find some genuine companionship. That being said, why does PW keep skewering our Stelena dreams? Sigh. What so much has happened between Stefan and Elena that they couldn't fall in love again? The actor seems to have come to a conclusion LOL-- again -- that does not take into account that visually Stefan and Elena were made for each other. There is a different je ne sais quoi at work here involving cinematic language. It has already happened, in fact, the whole pretext of the show was that it should happen. It did -- and it could happen again. It is something bigger than the actors. It is Literature. It is Cinema. As God is our witness, Stefan and Elena shall find each other again! You have to take what the actors/writers say with a grain of salt. SC is happening right now so it would make absolutely no sense for the actors to be pushing SE when it's not their time - yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't allowed to discuss any plot (in this case couplings) unless it is what is currently happening. You can't have the actors/writers spoiling anything major. And saying SE will be back together at this point would be a big spoiler.
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shoe20
Team Stefan
Posts: 1,739
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Post by shoe20 on Mar 8, 2015 20:11:44 GMT -5
I saw those Tweets, too. Let's start with the good news: Stefan is going to get some! YAY! His love life is pretty much as tragic as Ric's so I hope I can be generous enough to hope (that is two hopes) he'll find some genuine companionship. That being said, why does PW keep skewering our Stelena dreams? Sigh. What so much has happened between Stefan and Elena that they couldn't fall in love again? The actor seems to have come to a conclusion LOL-- again -- that does not take into account that visually Stefan and Elena were made for each other. There is a different je ne sais quoi at work here involving cinematic language. It has already happened, in fact, the whole pretext of the show was that it should happen. It did -- and it could happen again. It is something bigger than the actors. It is Literature. It is Cinema. As God is our witness, Stefan and Elena shall find each other again! You have to take what the actors/writers say with a grain of salt. SC is happening right now so it would make absolutely no sense for the actors to be pushing SE when it's not their time - yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't allowed to discuss any plot (in this case couplings) unless it is what is currently happening. You can't have the actors/writers spoiling anything major. And saying SE will be back together at this point would be a big spoiler. So true napoli...... In fact correct guesses skyrocket if you always go with the opposite of what is said and teased...lol Not my first rodeo with this bunch. Do ya think Stefan is gona flip the switch, so he can have a non committal tumble with Caroline?? I kinda see that coming... :You know a Kings'X.... had my fingers crossed... hedonist romp. no promise / no foul... I could support that... Stefan has to be backed up. lololol
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Post by napoli on Mar 8, 2015 21:08:40 GMT -5
So true napoli...... In fact correct guesses skyrocket if you always go with the opposite of what is said and teased...lol Not my first rodeo with this bunch. Do ya think Stefan is gona flip the switch, so he can have a non committal tumble with Caroline?? I kinda see that coming... :You know a Kings'X.... had my fingers crossed... hedonist romp. no promise / no foul... I could support that... Stefan has to be backed up. lololol I'm terrible at guessing a detailed theory. I'm more into the broad/general happenings. I hope they don't have Stefan voluntarily flip the switch. My worry is that it would go against his character development. Then again if there is a scenario where Stefan must flip the switch to save Caroline then I could accept it. It doesn't bother me if Stefan and Caroline have sex and Stefan has his humanity. I think watching the love of your life sleeping with your brother mere hours after breaking up and having her voluntarily killing herself just to keep your brother company is more than enough to allow for your own needs being met even if it will never be epic. Why should Stefan just wait on the side line for his love when it is clear in the story line that they are in the friend zone. I'm all for the SE reunion but it's just not happening now. Let Stefan have his fun. Based on his other 'relationships' (Rebekah and Katherine) Caroline will realise that he will never love her the way he loves Elena. There is no such thing as something better than true love but I'm glad Stefan is an optimist and that he's going into it with a hopeful heart versus treating Caroline as a distraction from from who he really wants. Thankfully the writers still show the difference between the brothers.
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shoe20
Team Stefan
Posts: 1,739
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Post by shoe20 on Mar 8, 2015 21:25:16 GMT -5
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Post by crimmyj on Mar 8, 2015 23:42:56 GMT -5
The fact is "D" I see a way for the rating too get worse, (no I'm not rooting for it, lol) The writing needs to pick up, yes. But the trajectory their on now, is simple not pleasing many fans.... They've buried SE....Their forcing SC.... and the DE story is just not what those fans are looking for..... the majority of them don't want Damon redeemed, they fell for the sharky eye rolling bad boy. The showrunners can't break up DE, because the numbers will drop like an anchor. They canned Liz and Jeremy... have no "Big Bad".... Honestly, I don't know what the answer is to spark interest..... One thing that would definitely help would be to bring back Katherine.... Hey, a guy can hope. I would love for them to bring Katherine back too. I agree with you there. Cause not only would it be great for ratings, but I'll get to see Nina flex her acting muscles a bit more, cause her version of Elena over the last season and a half hasn't really lived up to her talent. In other words, she hasn't "brought it" to the character for a while. With Katherine there, maybe I'll get to see her A-game. So far this season has been good. Even with DE being together. So the ratings drop to me is really unexplainable. Last season wasn't quite as good, yet somehow it had better ratings. Doesn't make any sense to me. Then again, it did have Katherine, which I guess made up for a lot its shortcomings, so maybe her not being here is part of the reason. I mean... what other explanation is there? The ratings last year didn't truly drop until she was "killed", so take that however you want. Maybe if things get bad enough, they'll bring her back in a desperation move. Of course fans would see through it, but I don't think they'll care. As long as she was on the show, that is all that would matter to them. Hmm... maybe it wasn't so smart killing her off after all, ah Julie? Would DE really riot and burn the place down if they broke them up? Are they that invested in them and only them? Hmm... I seriously don't know the answer to that, but I'm sure Julie wants no part of that knowledge. She'll happily trudge along with their stale relationship if it meant not finding out that pertinent truth. And, it would also keep screaming Delena fans off her back. You know how they are. I'm sure she has the battle scars from their various belligerent and obnoxious ways. (Obviously not all of them.) Honestly, I have no idea what would spark the show? Katherine maybe, but if not that, what else? Kai has been a great villain, yet the ratings have slipped. The season for the most part has been good, yet the ratings have slipped. So what else is there? SE? Would they dare? I doubt that they would, cause one, they have no guts (time has proven that), and two, they're determined to cram Steroline down everyone's throat. That's Julie's baby, and she'll feed it until it gets big and fat. And then give it to us in all of its chubbilicious glory, whether we like it or not. I, for one, don't have a major issue with Steroline, but a lot of fans do, and they have certainly voiced their opinion about it. So far it has fallen on deaf ears. Full steam ahead folks. Here comes Steroline. I don't know what to tell you shoe. Maybe the show just ran its course. Or maybe it was Kevin Williamson leaving? Or maybe it was a combination of a lot of things? But when I see shows on the same network going on ten seasons with better ratings, it really bothers me. Cause TVD could have been one of those shows. Then again, maybe it was doomed from the start. Maybe the vampire genre can only last so long, and we're witnessing its last days. Perhaps reality is catching up to it. Whatever the case, all a fan can hope for is that it ties up its many loose ends and goes out with a bang, rewarding them for years of faithful service. I hope that is the case here, but I seriously have my doubts. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. I think you nailed it with that line. It just ran its course. plus demetra is also right...the show ran its course mainly because they lost their credibility. Their mythology and continuity has been ripped a part the past 2 seasons and when that happens the story becomes meaningless. The fact they made most of the deaths meaningless lowered the stakes, nothing felt permanent therefore nothing brought drama or risk. It became pure soap opera fluff. And it sure isn't the network's darling anymore, that mantel is now with the DC shows, The Flash and Arrow, and adding a third spinoff to the mix next season. And Supernatural still maintains its numbers well for the network. Right now of all the CW shows I watch TVD is the one that is exciting me the least. Shows like the ones I mentioned, plus TO and The 100, still have high stakes and fast paced storytelling, while TVD seems be just trudging along still trying to find its footing on shaky ground it created over the course of Dries' showrunning.
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Post by demetra on Mar 9, 2015 6:39:00 GMT -5
I want to see what they do with Season Seven. Every show is leading to the last show. I think they can still provide the series with a fitting conclusion. If they don't waste their assets.
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Post by pepitagonzalez on Mar 10, 2015 10:38:57 GMT -5
Is this the Episode Discussion Roundtable or an extended arm of the Stelena Bubble? I see a lot of Delena and Steroline bashing and no moderator in sight.
This episode was mediocre at best and unless JP concentrates on telling the stories that matter to the fans, the decline will be swift and merciless.
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Post by crimmyj on Mar 10, 2015 11:12:42 GMT -5
Is this the Episode Discussion Roundtable or an extended arm of the Stelena Bubble? I see a lot of Delena and Steroline bashing and no moderator in sight. This episode was mediocre at best and unless JP concentrates on telling the stories that matter to the fans, the decline will be swift and merciless. I am becoming afraid that that ship (no pun) has sailed. I just do not see a way for the writers to truly turn this around and regain their viewership as they have kind of created their own hell with where they have taken the characters. Viewer apathy is really starting to settle in, it has become a struggle to really latch on to or even care about character's fates. A swift and merciless decline indeed.
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Post by demetra on Mar 10, 2015 17:26:40 GMT -5
Is this the Episode Discussion Roundtable or an extended arm of the Stelena Bubble? I see a lot of Delena and Steroline bashing and no moderator in sight. This episode was mediocre at best and unless JP concentrates on telling the stories that matter to the fans, the decline will be swift and merciless. No bashing intended! Just friendly end-game rivalry. :) If there were no Delena or Steroline, what would we have to discuss? :) 7 of 12 reviewers gave this episode a 5, a pretty healthy response for TVD fan forum. When an episode doesn't really satisfy, you don't see too many committing on the episode review. These are the folks that declare themselves -- there may be lots of gentle visitors who don't care to be recognized. pepitagonzalez, why do you think Delena didn't make it through the Sweet 16? I am wondering why. I thought there were quajillions of Delena's. BTW This is a Debates Thread. If you disagree with me, I invite you to correct me. Tell us more about your position. I thought this episode was pretty critical for Damon. He did a good job for Liz. It was a sweet scene between Damon and Elena. And of course pivotal for the return of Bonnie. Then he recognizes his mother!
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Post by Ruby on Mar 15, 2015 7:34:43 GMT -5
Is this the Episode Discussion Roundtable or an extended arm of the Stelena Bubble? I see a lot of Delena and Steroline bashing and no moderator in sight. This episode was mediocre at best and unless JP concentrates on telling the stories that matter to the fans, the decline will be swift and merciless. This is a debates thread where you can disagree with someone's post about a character, storyline, or ship if you desire to. If you have an issue with a post that you think is violating the rules, you simply report the post AND thats how the moderators begin the process of dealing with it, if we did not catch it ourselves. That's how other members help and we keep the site running fine. You being sarcastic about it to see if it sparks to something else is not the way and it's not appreciated. But please if you have any other pointers for me on how I should run my site with the other mods, feel free to shoot me a message and we can gladly discuss it. Sent from my SM-G900T using proboards
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Post by nibbio on Apr 17, 2015 2:31:12 GMT -5
4/5 !
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