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Post by katvolley13 on Oct 27, 2014 15:27:36 GMT -5
I like that her compassion for other people is back. She actually cares whats going on in other peoples lives. Thats who elena is
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Post by crimmyj on Oct 27, 2014 17:57:48 GMT -5
I like that her compassion for other people is back. She actually cares whats going on in other peoples lives. Thats who elena is Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using proboards Yeah isn't it amazing the minute she gets her Damon memories wiped that she goes back to caring about other people, her compassion returns. Funny, how that happens.
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Post by stelena4ever on Oct 27, 2014 17:59:00 GMT -5
What did you Like?
I loved all the interaction with Stefan and Elena. What you did not like?
The episode was ruined for me when Stefan started pimping de again. What was your favorite scene/quote?
I loved the fake marriage proposal. I thought it was very funny. Paul and Nina still have it.
What scene was the most shocking to you or caught you off guard?
Stefan's girlfriend coming back as a vampire. Did not see that one coming.
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Post by demetra on Oct 27, 2014 19:57:13 GMT -5
I actually agree with you here. It had a dark, foreboding feel to it that really enhanced it's premise as a supernatural show (with the Salvatore mansion being ground zero for that). Now it's day shoots and pool parties. Damn... those pesky daylight rings! (And BTW, is it me, or is Elena acting more and more like Nina in real life? She smiles way too much for me. Elena NEVER smiled that much. She was serious most of the time. It's like now that Katherine's gone, Nina is channeling more and more of her own personality into Elena. I don't know, it's just a bit different to me. Does anyone else get that vibe?) I can't believe it, but I used to complain about the show being too dark. Now I wish it could go back to the way it was. In a variety of ways. I think your conclusion about Elena/Nina is right on @dman. She's bothering me more this season. The smiles, the flirting, her supposedly funny threats to get people to do what she wants, like selfie-bombing Caroline. Elena's turned into a party girl. I can't even say it's good for her to be happy because it's not real with her memories gone. She's had moments this season, like talking with Ric about the compulsion, when she was more serious. She felt more like Elena during those scenes. I'm agreeing but I believe that element of artificiality relates as others have been saying to Elena's abandoned sombre side. Do you remember when Damon snatched her and took her to Bree's bar in Atlanta in Season One? Elena's euphoria since Ric compelled her to forget Damon seems slightly inebriated -- even when she's not partying.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 0:50:57 GMT -5
Here's the rehash for "Black Hole Sun."
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Post by Anna on Oct 28, 2014 3:23:04 GMT -5
I like that her compassion for other people is back. She actually cares whats going on in other peoples lives. Thats who elena is Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using proboards Yeah isn't it amazing the minute she gets her Damon memories wiped that she goes back to caring about other people, her compassion returns. Funny, how that happens. It is funny how something that 'consumed' her is erased and now she's now that she's not dealing with it all she is focusing on others once again...and not herself. This is actually a thing that I both love and hate about Elena. I love that she's very compassionate and there for her friends, what I hate about it is Elena putting the needs of others before hers and ignoring what she feels because she deems it unimportant in the face of other problems. When Damon was in the picture, Elena's life revolved around her relationship with him. She put a lot of her attention into them. And I think that's a reasonable thing to do. But one of the consequences was that her time wasn't there to accommodate to everyone, make sure they were okay and happy. When she was with Damon, she made sure she was happy, she put her own needs above others. Call it selfish, but it is important that she's happy. She deserves all the happiness in the world. And that's why I support a lot of her shadier decisions. It's important to be with your significant other, and i get that you can't forget about your friends, but Elena is very good about forgetting about herself. And Bonnie is very similar. Bonnie does a lot of stuff and just never gets how real it is, until she's dead. *sorry hijacked the post
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Post by aliensoul13 on Oct 28, 2014 4:08:55 GMT -5
Gif reactionsNot nearly as funny as laughing-is-winning, but still entertaining. I can't get over the fact that Jo looks like an adult April, so that bit cracked me up. I'm also glad she pointed out that Ric thinks he won (I still wuv him), but Jer's definitely had the worst life. And amg, lol, now both Gilberts have been with a Salvatore. I didn't think about that.
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Post by crimmyj on Oct 28, 2014 11:30:12 GMT -5
Yeah isn't it amazing the minute she gets her Damon memories wiped that she goes back to caring about other people, her compassion returns. Funny, how that happens. It is funny how something that 'consumed' her is erased and now she's now that she's not dealing with it all she is focusing on others once again...and not herself. This is actually a thing that I both love and hate about Elena. I love that she's very compassionate and there for her friends, what I hate about it is Elena putting the needs of others before hers and ignoring what she feels because she deems it unimportant in the face of other problems. When Damon was in the picture, Elena's life revolved around her relationship with him. She put a lot of her attention into them. And I think that's a reasonable thing to do. But one of the consequences was that her time wasn't there to accommodate to everyone, make sure they were okay and happy. When she was with Damon, she made sure she was happy, she put her own needs above others. Call it selfish, but it is important that she's happy. She deserves all the happiness in the world. And that's why I support a lot of her shadier decisions. It's important to be with your significant other, and i get that you can't forget about your friends, but Elena is very good about forgetting about herself. And Bonnie is very similar. Bonnie does a lot of stuff and just never gets how real it is, until she's dead. *sorry hijacked the post But there is a difference between a healthy "selfishness" or focus on one's own happiness and something that is completely unhealthy. What Elena engaged in during her time with Damon was entirely unhealthy. Textbook codependent relationship. My dear friend just obtained her PhD in Psychology last year and her dissertation was centered around adolescent love. It was always fascinating to break down examples in media (both film/television and literary) and have her go through the progressions in her research. Let's just say it is no wonder the writers referred to the Damon Elena combination as being "toxic" repeatedly. It is possible being involved and deeply in love with someone and finding your own happiness in the midst of also being caring and compassionate towards others, you do not have to give up one for the other. The balance is key. Elena had no balance. The love that "consumed" her left nothing for anyone else (nearly non existent relationship with her brother), or even her own needs. It was an addiction, which is unfortunate because they could have framed it an entirely different way (like not stripping away her good qualities in order to be with another person). Which is why it is nice to finally see Elena doing something for herself, because focusing on work in the health care industry isn't a completely "selfless" endeavor...it also brings joy and happiness to the one doing the work as well. balance. It has also been nice to see her trying to help her family and friends. Compassionate and independent Elena is a much preferred female protagonist.
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Kiki
Team Stefan
Posts: 2,953
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Post by Kiki on Oct 28, 2014 12:35:14 GMT -5
@crimmyi can I like your post twice? When Elena was in love with Stefan she loved him deeply and still cared about her friends and family. And Stefan became friends with her friends, too and cared for them because they were his friends, too. That was a healthy relationship. When Elena became addicted to Damon (I refuse to call that love) she only focused on him and nothing else mattered. And Damon played nice guy to her friends to please her not because he loved her friends as much as she did. He didn't care about her friends and Elena was so focused on him that she didn't care in the end, too. Not even for Stefan whom she once loved so much
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Post by napoli on Oct 28, 2014 13:04:48 GMT -5
If Elena had been selfish for her own happiness but at least cared about Jeremy's well-being and happiness and didn't focus on her friends then I would have at least understood and accepted that. But Elena didn't even give a crap about Jeremy. She quickly let Jeremy take the fall for burning the house down when she's the one who did it. She left Jeremy with Damon who doesn't have the best judgement when it comes to anyone other than himself.
Jeremy's guidance counselor summed it up perfectly in 5x17: 'Jeremy's in desperate need of a stable living situation. People who care about giving him that more than their own needs.' Within minutes of hearing this and Elena promising to do better, instead of making an actual plan to help Jeremy out, DE were busy flirting in the school hallway and too busy worrying about their own toxic relationship to even consider Jeremy's needs.
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Post by crimmyj on Oct 28, 2014 15:42:12 GMT -5
If Elena had been selfish for her own happiness but at least cared about Jeremy's well-being and happiness and didn't focus on her friends then I would have at least understood and accepted that. But Elena didn't even give a crap about Jeremy. She quickly let Jeremy take the fall for burning the house down when she's the one who did it. She left Jeremy with Damon who doesn't have the best judgement when it comes to anyone other than himself. Jeremy's guidance counselor summed it up perfectly in 5x17: 'Jeremy's in desperate need of a stable living situation. People who care about giving him that more than their own needs.' Within minutes of hearing this and Elena promising to do better, instead of making an actual plan to help Jeremy out, DE were busy flirting in the school hallway and too busy worrying about their own toxic relationship to even consider Jeremy's needs.That episode broke my heart for Jeremy and made me so effin mad at Elena (and the writers). What the guidance counselor said was dead on and what any good guidance counselor would say in that situation. It is what being responsible for a minor is all about. The moments where you do indeed have to put their needs above your own. And guess what, that doesn't mean also ignoring your own happiness or needs. People do it every day of their lives. So instead of having that moment be a teaching moment, or some moment of clarity for Elena...she instead fantasizes about having sex with Damon while Damon antagonizes that desire. I still get sick to my stomach when I think of how that all played out. Which later that episode, Jeremy ends up making the decision to leave and live with Matt, instead of his own sister. And then the writers have never revisited that moment again and that is shameful and embarrassing and should at some point be remedied.
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Post by Sophia on Oct 28, 2014 21:55:47 GMT -5
One thing I've been thinking about a lot is that letter Elena wrote to herself. To be honest, I didn't quite buy it because the Elena we have been seeing for at least a few seasons was by far not self-aware or coherent enough to write that? It's very reflected and I just don't think Elena's reflected at the moment at all (this is not a real comparison, but her giving up her identity as a 'writer' in favor of becoming a 'doctor' plays into that as well imo). Nor do I think she would have planned ahead for the case of someone 'spilling the beans'. Another thing that really worries me about her character is that she says she has grief down to a science, yet that's not actually the case at all (not that anyone could judge her for all the people she's lost). After Jeremy's death, she asks Stefan and Damon to take her humanity away, and now she is in such a deep hole that she thinks only the loss of memory can save her. Not that I really mind because it's just shown by contrast how much happier she is without Damon, and it's scary that it took memory erasure to make her see how horrible Damon really is. It makes me really worried for her that the writers didn't think it would be a better path for her to try to overcome that pain by herself, but I think it's a choice they made consciously. Ugh I could go on about this but I feel like I shouldn't. This is the first time I visited the forum anyway, so that was just my two cents because I couldn't keep quiet
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Post by aliensoul13 on Oct 29, 2014 2:33:00 GMT -5
If Elena had been selfish for her own happiness but at least cared about Jeremy's well-being and happiness and didn't focus on her friends then I would have at least understood and accepted that. But Elena didn't even give a crap about Jeremy. She quickly let Jeremy take the fall for burning the house down when she's the one who did it. She left Jeremy with Damon who doesn't have the best judgement when it comes to anyone other than himself. Jeremy's guidance counselor summed it up perfectly in 5x17: 'Jeremy's in desperate need of a stable living situation. People who care about giving him that more than their own needs.' Within minutes of hearing this and Elena promising to do better, instead of making an actual plan to help Jeremy out, DE were busy flirting in the school hallway and too busy worrying about their own toxic relationship to even consider Jeremy's needs.That episode broke my heart for Jeremy and made me so effin mad at Elena (and the writers). What the guidance counselor said was dead on and what any good guidance counselor would say in that situation. It is what being responsible for a minor is all about. The moments where you do indeed have to put their needs above your own. And guess what, that doesn't mean also ignoring your own happiness or needs. People do it every day of their lives. So instead of having that moment be a teaching moment, or some moment of clarity for Elena...she instead fantasizes about having sex with Damon while Damon antagonizes that desire. I still get sick to my stomach when I think of how that all played out. Which later that episode, Jeremy ends up making the decision to leave and live with Matt, instead of his own sister. And then the writers have never revisited that moment again and that is shameful and embarrassing and should at some point be remedied. I feel the same. Everytime I watch that episode, it bugs me how there appeared to be no real point to it, no bright light, no epiphany. Yes, Elena realized how bad Jer was doing and tried to stay away from Damon for two seconds and Jer moved out and was badass for a moment, but ultimately all that happened was that everything went back to normal followed by him losing his girlfriend (for a second time). And now people are lecturing him on how he should just suck it up. Then again, I never understood why everyone was always treating him like a baby. I enjoy that he's basically the kid on the show, but there's only a two year difference between Jer and the rest (excluding the century/milennium old vampires), and they've all been through crap. But, again, my youngest brother is about 4 years older than me, so I wouldn't know.
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Post by deb on Oct 29, 2014 7:30:14 GMT -5
One thing I've been thinking about a lot is that letter Elena wrote to herself. To be honest, I didn't quite buy it because the Elena we have been seeing for at least a few seasons was by far not self-aware or coherent enough to write that? It's very reflected and I just don't think Elena's reflected at the moment at all (this is not a real comparison, but her giving up her identity as a 'writer' in favor of becoming a 'doctor' plays into that as well imo). Nor do I think she would have planned ahead for the case of someone 'spilling the beans'. Another thing that really worries me about her character is that she says she has grief down to a science, yet that's not actually the case at all (not that anyone could judge her for all the people she's lost). After Jeremy's death, she asks Stefan and Damon to take her humanity away, and now she is in such a deep hole that she thinks only the loss of memory can save her. Not that I really mind because it's just shown by contrast how much happier she is without Damon, and it's scary that it took memory erasure to make her see how horrible Damon really is. It makes me really worried for her that the writers didn't think it would be a better path for her to try to overcome that pain by herself, but I think it's a choice they made consciously. Ugh I could go on about this but I feel like I shouldn't. This is the first time I visited the forum anyway, so that was just my two cents because I couldn't keep quiet Sophia, welcome to the forum and we'd be happy if you join us and become a member
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Post by jennifer on Oct 29, 2014 10:54:14 GMT -5
Yeah isn't it amazing the minute she gets her Damon memories wiped that she goes back to caring about other people, her compassion returns. Funny, how that happens. It is funny how something that 'consumed' her is erased and now she's now that she's not dealing with it all she is focusing on others once again...and not herself. This is actually a thing that I both love and hate about Elena. I love that she's very compassionate and there for her friends, what I hate about it is Elena putting the needs of others before hers and ignoring what she feels because she deems it unimportant in the face of other problems. When Damon was in the picture, Elena's life revolved around her relationship with him. She put a lot of her attention into them. And I think that's a reasonable thing to do. But one of the consequences was that her time wasn't there to accommodate to everyone, make sure they were okay and happy. When she was with Damon, she made sure she was happy, she put her own needs above others. Call it selfish, but it is important that she's happy. She deserves all the happiness in the world. And that's why I support a lot of her shadier decisions. It's important to be with your significant other, and i get that you can't forget about your friends, but Elena is very good about forgetting about herself. And Bonnie is very similar. Bonnie does a lot of stuff and just never gets how real it is, until she's dead. *sorry hijacked the post I get your point about Elena putting everyone before herself, Anna. It's something that upset Stefan and her friends greatly when she wanted to give herself up to Klaus. You mentioned in another post about liking balance, and that's how Elena seems to me now. She's not self-sacrificing, which Stefan was right to call a tragedy, and she's not overly focused in a negative way on one person, which did happen with Damon as S5 progressed imo. Unfortunately, Elena (and Bonnie) can't win! I see Elena as balanced right now, but it's not her whole, true self without her memories of Damon. Their relationship changed her. I hold on to the idea that at least she picked volunteering at the hospital by herself. Blood bags aside, it shows she does feel compassion & she has her own plans and goals. To be cliche, somewhere in there Elena's finding herself despite all the drama in her life.
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