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Post by Ruby on Oct 11, 2013 18:22:41 GMT -5
Parts I liked
- Bonnie and Matt --all of their scenes. - Jeremy being awesome - Katherine gaining a heart and saving jeremy - Silas (love hate thing with him) - Elena fighting her compulsion and her giving Damon some truth in the process Parts I didn't like: - Damon consistently calling Stefan Elena's ex-boyfriend instead of his brother or just Stefan. - Damon not really doing much about his brother being missing. Well to defend Damon a bit.he was doing something.he got Liz to do it for him in getting people to search the area for stefan or the safe
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Post by teppy1 on Oct 11, 2013 18:27:17 GMT -5
Parts I liked
- Bonnie and Matt --all of their scenes. - Jeremy being awesome - Katherine gaining a heart and saving jeremy - Silas (love hate thing with him) - Elena fighting her compulsion and her giving Damon some truth in the process Parts I didn't like: - Damon consistently calling Stefan Elena's ex-boyfriend instead of his brother or just Stefan. - Damon not really doing much about his brother being missing. Well to defend Damon a bit.he was doing something.he got Liz to do it for him in getting people to search the area for stefan or the safe True Ruby, I did say -not much- so yes he did something. I would have liked it if he did more. I think they should of had him do more or at least seem more distraught imo
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Post by Ruby on Oct 11, 2013 18:38:25 GMT -5
teppy1 totally agree about being more distraught about it and even now with the latest webclip its like seriously? ?? but i wont get into that here lol
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 11, 2013 18:52:54 GMT -5
Parts I liked
- Bonnie and Matt --all of their scenes. - Jeremy being awesome - Katherine gaining a heart and saving jeremy - Silas (love hate thing with him) - Elena fighting her compulsion and her giving Damon some truth in the process Parts I didn't like: - Damon consistently calling Stefan Elena's ex-boyfriend instead of his brother or just Stefan. - Damon not really doing much about his brother being missing. Damon has several priorities at the moment. Stefan: he's all over that by 1) engaging Liz until he realises Stefan/Silas is at whitmore college and realises that 2), Elena is in danger (hence change in priorities), 3), Protecting Kat because Damon is intelligent enough to realise that she IS leverage in whatever Silas needs (bargaining to get his bro back).
What I liked: The title, True Lies, Every body is lying to protect somebody else; Damon is lying/omitting to protect Elena Elena is omitting to not worry Damon Bonnie is not letting everyone know she is dead to not upset them Jeremy is keeping Bonnies' secret. Silas is lying for his own agenda...........? Everybody is trying to protect everybody else by lying to them, but they do this with good intentions. I loved this episode, TVD feels like it's getting back to it's roots and I applaud the writers at this point. There are several mysteries, Jesse and what does he know? What is Nadias agenda? What does Silas want from Kat? What is Silas's plan? What happened to Matt? What is the new professor up to? How is Grayson Gilbert involved? Where is Tyler and what is he up to? Who killed Megan and why? How do all these SL link up? All these questions and so far no answers, I say bring it on. OMG i forgot about the triangle of contrivance!!!!!!! As far as I can tell, the only point in Stefan being in that box is to give him those pointless SE hallucinations, I don't get the point of that SL at all. It hasn't anything to do with the plot at all, unless you count giving DE a roadblock/ fake angst, enough already, it's cringey. I love Damon and I love shirtless Damon even more, but really? How was any of that scene plot related? ??
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Post by teppy1 on Oct 11, 2013 18:56:13 GMT -5
damonsgirl I will agree to disagree with you I understand that your opinion would be different than mine.
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Post by Ruby on Oct 11, 2013 19:06:01 GMT -5
Parts I liked
- Bonnie and Matt --all of their scenes. - Jeremy being awesome - Katherine gaining a heart and saving jeremy - Silas (love hate thing with him) - Elena fighting her compulsion and her giving Damon some truth in the process Parts I didn't like: - Damon consistently calling Stefan Elena's ex-boyfriend instead of his brother or just Stefan. - Damon not really doing much about his brother being missing. Damon has several priorities at the moment. Stefan: he's all over that by 1) engaging Liz until he realises Stefan/Silas is at whitmore college and realises that 2), Elena is in danger (hence change in priorities), 3), Protecting Kat because Damon is intelligent enough to realise that she IS leverage in whatever Silas needs (bargaining to get his bro back).
What I liked: The title, True Lies, Every body is lying to protect somebody else; Damon is lying/omitting to protect Elena Elena is omitting to not worry Damon Bonnie is not letting everyone know she is dead to not upset them Jeremy is keeping Bonnies' secret. Silas is lying for his own agenda...........? Everybody is trying to protect everybody else by lying to them, but they do this with good intentions. I loved this episode, TVD feels like it's getting back to it's roots and I applaud the writers at this point. There are several mysteries, Jesse and what does he know? What is Nadias agenda? What does Silas want from Kat? What is Silas's plan? What happened to Matt? What is the new professor up to? How is Grayson Gilbert involved? Where is Tyler and what is he up to? Who killed Megan and why? How do all these SL link up? All these questions and so far no answers, I say bring it on. OMG i forgot about the triangle of contrivance!!!!!!! As far as I can tell, the only point in Stefan being in that box is to give him those pointless SE hallucinations, I don't get the point of that SL at all. It hasn't anything to do with the plot at all, unless you count giving DE a roadblock/ fake angst, enough already, it's cringey. I love Damon and I love shirtless Damon even more, but really? How was any of that scene plot related? ?? I agree Damon had alot going on with silas then stefan and then silas getting to elena... I think the hallucinations is just to show what Stefan has been seeing while hes been dealing with his crazy sufferings of drowning over and over again and what keeping him from turning off his humanity. Its the same how they showed us now the other side. they showing us the other side of things
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 11, 2013 19:10:38 GMT -5
damonsgirl I will agree to disagree with you I understand that your opinion would be different than mine. ok
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Post by deb on Oct 11, 2013 19:15:49 GMT -5
damonsgirl, I have to disagree with you about SE hallucinations being pointless... It shows us that Elena is the one who's getting Stefan through all this pain and suffering and that may be important in the future. I understand that, to a Damon's/DE fan, they are pointless, but this is Stefan's story, not Damon/Elena story so, maybe, these hallucinations are for a more important reason than just to give DE a roadblock/ fake angst... Just MO, off course... We'll have to wait and see... Also, it's important for Stefan's fans to know this: What's keeping him from falling apart...
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Post by damonsgirl on Oct 11, 2013 19:36:38 GMT -5
Damon has several priorities at the moment. Stefan: he's all over that by 1) engaging Liz until he realises Stefan/Silas is at whitmore college and realises that 2), Elena is in danger (hence change in priorities), 3), Protecting Kat because Damon is intelligent enough to realise that she IS leverage in whatever Silas needs (bargaining to get his bro back).
What I liked: The title, True Lies, Every body is lying to protect somebody else; Damon is lying/omitting to protect Elena Elena is omitting to not worry Damon Bonnie is not letting everyone know she is dead to not upset them Jeremy is keeping Bonnies' secret. Silas is lying for his own agenda...........? Everybody is trying to protect everybody else by lying to them, but they do this with good intentions. I loved this episode, TVD feels like it's getting back to it's roots and I applaud the writers at this point. There are several mysteries, Jesse and what does he know? What is Nadias agenda? What does Silas want from Kat? What is Silas's plan? What happened to Matt? What is the new professor up to? How is Grayson Gilbert involved? Where is Tyler and what is he up to? Who killed Megan and why? How do all these SL link up? All these questions and so far no answers, I say bring it on. OMG i forgot about the triangle of contrivance!!!!!!! As far as I can tell, the only point in Stefan being in that box is to give him those pointless SE hallucinations, I don't get the point of that SL at all. It hasn't anything to do with the plot at all, unless you count giving DE a roadblock/ fake angst, enough already, it's cringey. I love Damon and I love shirtless Damon even more, but really? How was any of that scene plot related? ?? I agree Damon had alot going on with silas then stefan and then silas getting to elena... I think the hallucinations is just to show what Stefan has been seeing while hes been dealing with his crazy sufferings of drowning over and over again and what keeping him from turning off his humanity. Its the same how they showed us now the other side. they showing us the other side of things I get that Ruby, In really do, but it's the way it is written. They always have to show Damon as the "bad guy" v Stefan the "Martyr" Elena as the "saviour", we get it, I I I get it.. Even when Stefan is suffering and at an all time low, in his mind, he still views himself as better that Damon and undeserving of his fate. I do feel sorry for Stefan, He lost his girl, he is drowning over and over again and he is in terrible torment! As for showing him the other side! Welcome to Damons world. Stefan needs this experience for his redemption, he still needs to recognise the evil within himself and atone for all the things he did whilst he was a ripper, and accept that the ripper is a part of him and not separate from him. I wish the writers had shown more of this type of hallucination, things that have nothing to do with Elena.
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Post by Ruby on Oct 11, 2013 20:14:24 GMT -5
I get that Ruby, In really do, but it's the way it is written. They always have to show Damon as the "bad guy" v Stefan the "Martyr" Elena as the "saviour", we get it, I I I get it.. Even when Stefan is suffering and at an all time low, in his mind, he still views himself as better that Damon and undeserving of his fate. I do feel sorry for Stefan, He lost his girl, he is drowning over and over again and he is in terrible torment! As for showing him the other side! Welcome to Damons world. Stefan needs this experience for his redemption, he still needs to recognise the evil within himself and atone for all the things he did whilst he was a ripper, and accept that the ripper is a part of him and not separate from him. I wish the writers had shown more of this type of hallucination, things that have nothing to do with Elena. • What do you mean Welcome to Damon's world? • Stefan has come to recognize the Ripper is one and itself. Back in season 3 he told Klaus that He wasnt going to let the ripper control him etc I believe Stefan has comes to terms with who he is and even the side of the ripper. It doesnt mean that hes not allowed to still fight for his (humanity) rather then letting the evil side come out to play. His problem has been that he has tried to surpress the Ripper without dealing with it but that has nothing to do with what hes been hallucinating. He hallucinating the battle with his mind. The pros and cons of turning everything off. • Yes Damon has taken the role of the bad angel on Stefan's shoulder but thats Damon. Damon is not the type to deal with these situations. He is impulsive and he goes for a quick fix. Hes not the type to usually give a pep talk Damon gives the tough love. • Stefan has said countless times that Elena is the one who helps him hold on. That can help him fight. Even if Elena is not with him anymore he still loves her. Elena is his small amounts of peace before he drowns over and over again
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Post by napoli on Oct 11, 2013 20:18:12 GMT -5
damonsgirl, I have to disagree with you about SE hallucinations being pointless... It shows us that Elena is the one who's getting Stefan through all this pain and suffering and that may be important in the future. I understand that, to a Damon's/DE fan, they are pointless, but this is Stefan's story, not Damon/Elena story so, maybe, these hallucinations are for a more important reason than just to give DE a roadblock/ fake angst... Just MO, off course... We'll have to wait and see... Also, it's important for Stefan's fans to know this: What's keeping him from falling apart... Of course the hallucinations aren't pointless. Just as Jeremy was Elena's humanity in s4, right now Elena is Stefan's humanity. It shows how strong of character Stefan is that he is going through quite literally torture every moment of everyday and still won't turn off his humanity for fear of losing even more. This is also to show a comparison of how Damon would take the easy way out as he did with forcing Elena to turn her humanity off in s4. There is a connection between this scene, what came before and more than likely what is still to come.
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Post by napoli on Oct 11, 2013 21:03:56 GMT -5
I get that Ruby, In really do, but it's the way it is written. They always have to show Damon as the "bad guy" v Stefan the "Martyr" Elena as the "saviour", we get it, I I I get it.. Even when Stefan is suffering and at an all time low, in his mind, he still views himself as better that Damon and undeserving of his fate. I do feel sorry for Stefan, He lost his girl, he is drowning over and over again and he is in terrible torment! As for showing him the other side! Welcome to Damons world. Stefan needs this experience for his redemption, he still needs to recognise the evil within himself and atone for all the things he did whilst he was a ripper, and accept that the ripper is a part of him and not separate from him. I wish the writers had shown more of this type of hallucination, things that have nothing to do with Elena. • What do you mean Welcome to Damon's world? • Stefan has come to recognize the Ripper is one and itself. Back in season 3 he told Klaus that He wasnt going to let the ripper control him etc I believe Stefan has comes to terms with who he is and even the side of the ripper. It doesnt mean that hes not allowed to still fight for his (humanity) rather then letting the evil side come out to play. His problem has been that he has tried to surpress the Ripper without dealing with it but that has nothing to do with what hes been hallucinating. He hallucinating the battle with his mind. The pros and cons of turning everything off. • Yes Damon has taken the role of the bad angel on Stefan's shoulder but thats Damon. Damon is not the type to deal with these situations. He is impulsive and he goes for a quick fix. Hes not the type to usually give a pep talk Damon gives the tough love. • Stefan has said countless times that Elena is the one who helps him hold on. That can help him fight. Even if Elena is not with him anymore he still loves her. Elena is his small amounts of peace before he drowns over and over again Also Ruby to add to your comments, In 4x03 Stefan asked Caroline to help him in case he went over the edge with regard to his blood lust. Stefan acknowledges he has problems and he works on it. Stefan has been drinking human blood from blood bags as early as 4x15 when they were on the island and Rebekah had knocked him out right after realising there was only one cure and that if Stefan had it, he would give it to Elena. In 4x23 Stefan was drinking human blood poured from a blood bag into a glasses with Lexi. Stefan has gotten over his complex that the ripper controls him because it doesn't. This is shown in 3x19 when Stefan tells Klaus 'I've been fighting that part of myself thinking if I repress it, it will go away but it won't. And now that I've accepted it, it can't control me and neither can you.' Regarding Damon's role as the anti-hero, this is what Julie Plec has to say about it: "This is such an unpopular opinion," Plec says cautiously, "but I really feel strongly about everybody's willingness to love Damon no matter what he does. I love Damon. Who doesn't love Damon? But if everybody loves him no matter what he does, then how does what he does have impact? How is there anything profound about your anti-hero or your villain?" my-dailyplanet.blogspot.ca/2010/10/kevin-williamson-and-julie-pliec-is.htmlDamon is still on his journey to be redeemed. He called himself a reformed serial killer but not a redeemed serial killer. Unlike Stefan who has remorse and felt guilt about his kills, who has done penance as shown in 4x08 going off to Egypt to serve in the war and has changed his ways, Damon has only acknowledged that he has done bad things. But Damon has certainly never apologised, never done penance (where penance is a self-imposed act to redeem) or completely changed his ways. As we've seen with his love confession to Elena in 4x23 he can't even be sorry for doing terrible things that hurt her. So it is Damon who has a long way to go before being redeemed. The brothers really are polar opposites. Stefan embraced his humanity so much that it took him a long time to accept his evil (ripper) side. Damon is the opposite. Damon accepts his serial killer side (he's bad with a purpose, won't apologise even when it hurts Elena) but he has not yet accepted his full humanity. He had a slight epiphany in s2 when he had his crisis because he missed being human yet by s4x13 Damon says 'I used to miss being human but know I can't think of anything more miserable on earth.'
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shoe20
Team Stefan
Posts: 1,739
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Post by shoe20 on Oct 11, 2013 23:04:33 GMT -5
napoli, you really hit a lot on nails on the head with that post. I especially like your "The brothers really are polar opposites." because that's exactly how they are portrayed. imo As far as Damon's 'if your going to be bad - be bad with a purpose' looks to me like Silas has given that a whole new meaning. Damon lashes out a lot of times with no purpose at all. ie what purpose was accomplished when he stormed Whitmore College and thumped on Jessie? Announcing his arrival?
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Post by LA on Oct 12, 2013 0:36:43 GMT -5
Sorry I wasn't able to participate in this discussion last night, but after the ep I was exhausted, and had to work all day today. So I will throw in my thoughts now.
Overall, I actually really liked this episode. I liked it better than last week, and last week was better than last season, so I have high hopes for how the rest of the season will go. I will say that it has been kind of difficult for me adjusting to human Katherine. I still see her as the bamf that she always was, and I think she will continue to be that. It just took me a minute to remember why she wasn't wailing on the girl who noticed her, so I guess I just miss Vampire Katherine, even though I am looking forward to this new storyline with her.
What did you Like? Caroline-I love Caroline, I have nothing but love for this girl. She is my spirit animal, it is uncanny how much like me this girl is. So much so that as I was watching the episode, and doing my little commentary that I do, I mentioned something about being surprised at the memorial for Megan, and in the next scene she says the exact same thing I was thinking just moments before. I loved every moment with her. She is still in top form, and I love her.
Stelena- Ok, I don't care if it was all in Stefan's mind. The Stelena scenes were perfect, and beautiful, and I am starting to remember why I shipped them so hard before. Season 4 kind of ruined them for me, but I hope that I will be able to find that love I had for them before. I also loved the fact that Stefan was the thing that Elena cared more about than her rage at Damon. And the fact that Damon is the one who realized this, was just great. I am not a Damon fan at all, but I am finding that I actually like him much more so far this season, than I did before. Also Silas pretending to be Stefan with Elena, that was just painful.
Elena- I don't really have much to say about Elena. I am not a huge fan, but I did like a lot of her scenes. Especially when she opened up about how important it is that they find him. There was one moment when I wanted to punch her, but that's my own issues, lol.
Jeremy + Katherine- I don't understand why the writer's are constantly putting Jeremy in the position where he has to save the person who killed him, whoever it may be. Even if I did enjoy their scenes, I still cannot forget that she is the reason he died to begin with. Also, I was a little disappointed that Jer wasn't watching that bathroom like a hawk, he knows how Katherine is, of course she would try something.
Matt + Bonnie- I absolutely loved these scenes. And I loved that Matt was able to talk to her, and tell her that she needs to deal with her death before she can deal with anything else. I really love their friendship, so it was nice to get these scenes. Especially since at this point Bonnie has so little contact with anyone besides Jeremy. I am also loving that Bonnie and Jeremy are still growing closer again. I missed them.
Ripper Stefan- I have very mixed feelings about this, I love Ripper Stefan, so I am very excited about this, but it also hurts me, because I know how much Stefan doesn't like that part of him. I am just glad he's not in the quarry anymore. And I am very much looking forward to Paul- as both Silas and Ripper, it's gonna be good.
What you did not like? There was not a whole lot that I didn't like about this episode actually, but there are a couple issues I have so far this season- The first is this whole 'secret society' storyline. It feels like it's just the founder's council of season 1 all over again. I mean I am glad that we are getting back to basics, but I didn't expect that when they said it was gonna be like it was in season 1 for that to be quite so literal. So I hope that they do something good with it, instead of redoing the same storyline over and over again.
The second is the gypsies. Ok, here is the thing I am a huge - like HUGE - buffyverse fan. And there are times where I feel like this show just rips off Joss Whedon's storylines really bad. And not in a good way. The end of last season was a big one for me, especially with Stefan being locked in a box and being sunk into a body of water. I mean that was just screaming s3 of Angel. And Silas and all of his 'the first' like qualities. It bothers me, and now we are bringing gypsies into it, gypsies who want to make sure that Silas suffers for what he has done. Come on.
And of course, being the crazy Tyler stan that I am, I am still upset about Tyler. First of all, I am not a huge fan about this whole thing where Tyler is supposedly avoiding Caroline's calls. I don't buy that at all. It's not what he would be doing, so unless there is something coming that gives a damn good reason for it, I will not be happy about this. The other issue I have regarding Tyler is me more upset at the fandom than the show, so I won't go into it here.
What was your favorite scene/quote? This episode had some really great one liners, some of my favorites were "I'm the freaking moonstone" and "That's why people treat you like an object, and not like a person", also Caroline's line about 'ground rules' was pretty good too.
What scene was the most shocking to you or caught you off guard? I was really surprised when Katherine saved Jeremy. Because even as a human she was always looking out for number 1, which I guess would explain it. Because if the big bad immortal 1.0 wants you, for whatever reason, who better to protect you than a hunter. It just surprised me, but in a good way.
Oh, I guess I should also say something about Jesse too. Of course, me being such a huge Forwood shipper I am not fond of his affections towards Caroline, but I have to say that the next few episodes will decide how I feel about Jesse. At this point, I actually kind of like him. He seems like a nice guy, but we also haven't found out about his issues with vampires yet, and how he interacts with Caroline in the next few eps will also determine how I feel about him. So that will be good to see.
All in all, I thought it was a good episode, and I really enjoyed it. Looking forward to next week.
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Post by wednesday on Oct 12, 2013 1:35:45 GMT -5
LA Amen about your comments of Joss's storylines & Angel!
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