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Post by damonsgirl on May 14, 2015 12:50:12 GMT -5
First of all you just set up a strawman argument. Secondly, if we are going to tackle the psychology of the cultural influences damaging to female via tv, movies, music, etc I think we can stick with the issue at hand...your strawman logical fallacy of throwing murder clouds the issue of what is being addressed, mistreatment of women. Do we live in a culture where murder is on the rise? No, because as humans we have established that murder regardless of the setting is a moral issue in which we all can agree. Sexual abuses and rape culture is a large problem because there is seemingly still a huge gray area in which people can't seem to see eye to eye of what is acceptable and unacceptable. We have grown men that find it both acceptable and hilarious to yell out "fhitp" (aint typing that one out) or the fact we still have women who defend the actions of Chris Brown, or major sports still have issue with what to do with athletes accused of sexual abuses and domestic violence, how rape is reported on college campuses, that 1 in 3 women in the armed services is sexually abused. That among our youth there still needs to be explanation of how to treat women, when no means no, etc (seriously watch Amy Schumers parody of friday night lights and the tackling of rape culture) There is a disconnect of how women should be treated in regards to relationships, etc. Do we need tv shows that muddy that gray area any further by sending a message to young females that sexual abuse is ok as long as its your boyfriend, or as long as they love you, as long as they are attractive, as long as they are sorry afterwards. That controlling relationships are healthy and should be something to strive for? I don;t see very many people on twitter hashtaging #lifegoals when they see a character murder someone, why? Because as a society we have established that murder is wrong. But I do see female on twitters hashtagin #relationshipgoals when they see Delena or Steroline...and that is not a good. Young girls bemoaning the fact they want a boyfriend like Damon is not a precedent this show should want to set. Joss Whedon knew this and treaded carefully on Buffy, he understood the medium has power and you should wield it wisely. Its a dangerous slope to tread because pop culture does seep into the everyday psyche. There is already an established line that tv and ads greatly affect a female's body image. Just like it should come as no surprise that how relationship can be portrayed on young adult shows also can have an affect on how young adults define a relationship, it is staggering the numbers of sexual and domestic abuses in teenage couples. long gone are the days of after school specials that would help shed light that getting abused was not love. But if a guy is good looking enough then why bother? Hell even Ted Bundy got love letters in prison, after all he was a charismatic and good looking man. To steal from Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility. It is easy to hide behind the guise of a television show about supernaturals but you have to also be aware of your demographic and the overall message you are sending. You need your target to be clear and concise. Consequences to actions. As a society we have long set the societal norm that murder is morally bankrupt and is punished accordingly, but as a society we send mixed signals on the degradation and mistreatment of females. I don't believe damonsgirl was broaching the topic of rape (please correct me if I am wrong damonsgirl) - she was talking generally about viewing a show depicting murderous vampires and searching for morality (selectively at that) within that very debatable venue. The strawman argument then lies with narrowing it down to one single objection that many view as non-existent in the show and whitewashing the rest of the egregious actions as non-applicable. Damonsgirl, what are you expecting next season. Will it satiate your need for entertainment based on fantasy? I guess we will see @pullingmypigtails, but I hoping for more Dalaric scenes, once Alaric apologises to Damon of course.
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Post by crimmyj on May 14, 2015 14:02:00 GMT -5
I don't believe damonsgirl was broaching the topic of rape (please correct me if I am wrong damonsgirl) - she was talking generally about viewing a show depicting murderous vampires and searching for morality (selectively at that) within that very debatable venue. The strawman argument then lies with narrowing it down to one single objection that many view as non-existent in the show and whitewashing the rest of the egregious actions as non-applicable. Damonsgirl, what are you expecting next season. Will it satiate your need for entertainment based on fantasy? I guess we will see @pullingmypigtails, but I hoping for more Dalaric scenes, once Alaric apologises to Damon of course.That is sarcasm, I hope. So you claim you dont judge a characters actions, but in one fail swoop feel Alaric needs to apologize to Damon? I get it now...it all revolves around Damon, because the deeper psychology here is the basic you find him attractive and want to sleep with him. It doesn't matter what his actions are, he is to sympathized with and babied and everyone else owes him. Don't hold your breath for that Dalaric apology...rumor has it Matt Davis is gone, took a gig on another show. And to the point of showrunners and promotions, yes there is plenty of showrunners going on twitter to promote their show, do q&a of that like... but what crosses the line is when they are only promoting ships or not the show, or fishing for story ideas. Directors especially, who are actually supposed to be the objective overseer of the story, shouldn't be doing that. But where TVD writers fail is that they actually take ideas from fans hashtags and fan fiction to flesh out their stories. THAT is EXTREMELY unprofessional and the antithesis of what solid storytelling is. A good creative writer knows and what they should have already learned is, you never give the audience what they want, you give them what they need. Which is one of the main reason TVD keeps sinking even further in the ratings (just poor storytelling and pure fan service) while shows like Supernatural still maintain their audience number for 10 years because they have always stayed true to their original concept and story arcs.
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Post by pulllingmypigtails on May 14, 2015 15:05:42 GMT -5
I guess we will see @pullingmypigtails, but I hoping for more Dalaric scenes, once Alaric apologises to Damon of course.That is sarcasm, I hope. So you claim you dont judge a characters actions, but in one fail swoop feel Alaric needs to apologize to Damon? I get it now...it all revolves around Damon, because the deeper psychology here is the basic you find him attractive and want to sleep with him. It doesn't matter what his actions are, he is to sympathized with and babied and everyone else owes him. Don't hold your breath for that Dalaric apology...rumor has it Matt Davis is gone, took a gig on another show. And to the point of showrunners and promotions, yes there is plenty of showrunners going on twitter to promote their show, do q&a of that like... but what crosses the line is when they are only promoting ships or not the show, or fishing for story ideas. Directors especially, who are actually supposed to be the objective overseer of the story, shouldn't be doing that. But where TVD writers fail is that they actually take ideas from fans hashtags and fan fiction to flesh out their stories. THAT is EXTREMELY unprofessional and the antithesis of what solid storytelling is. A good creative writer knows and what they should have already learned is, you never give the audience what they want, you give them what they need. Which is one of the main reason TVD keeps sinking even further in the ratings (just poor storytelling and pure fan service) while shows like Supernatural still maintain their audience number for 10 years because they have always stayed true to their original concept and story arcs. " I get it now...it all revolves around Damon, because the deeper psychology here is the basic you find him attractive and want to sleep with him." Speaking of apologies owed... Personal much? Read more: tvdshow.proboards.com/posts/recent#ixzz3a94Dzm9p
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Post by crimmyj on May 14, 2015 15:45:18 GMT -5
That is sarcasm, I hope. So you claim you dont judge a characters actions, but in one fail swoop feel Alaric needs to apologize to Damon? I get it now...it all revolves around Damon, because the deeper psychology here is the basic you find him attractive and want to sleep with him. It doesn't matter what his actions are, he is to sympathized with and babied and everyone else owes him. Don't hold your breath for that Dalaric apology...rumor has it Matt Davis is gone, took a gig on another show. And to the point of showrunners and promotions, yes there is plenty of showrunners going on twitter to promote their show, do q&a of that like... but what crosses the line is when they are only promoting ships or not the show, or fishing for story ideas. Directors especially, who are actually supposed to be the objective overseer of the story, shouldn't be doing that. But where TVD writers fail is that they actually take ideas from fans hashtags and fan fiction to flesh out their stories. THAT is EXTREMELY unprofessional and the antithesis of what solid storytelling is. A good creative writer knows and what they should have already learned is, you never give the audience what they want, you give them what they need. Which is one of the main reason TVD keeps sinking even further in the ratings (just poor storytelling and pure fan service) while shows like Supernatural still maintain their audience number for 10 years because they have always stayed true to their original concept and story arcs. " I get it now...it all revolves around Damon, because the deeper psychology here is the basic you find him attractive and want to sleep with him." Speaking of apologies owed... Personal much? Read more: tvdshow.proboards.com/posts/recent#ixzz3a94Dzm9pThat is the basis behind most ships is it not? people pick who they pick due to attractiveness, no? It is the same sort of psychology behind why women still wrote love letters to a convicted killer on death row, his attractiveness. It isn't personal, its human nature and human desire and how it alters our judgement on how we see people and situations.
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Post by pulllingmypigtails on May 14, 2015 15:47:46 GMT -5
" I get it now...it all revolves around Damon, because the deeper psychology here is the basic you find him attractive and want to sleep with him." Speaking of apologies owed... Personal much? Read more: tvdshow.proboards.com/posts/recent#ixzz3a94Dzm9pThat is the basis behind most ships is it not? people pick who they pick due to attractiveness, no? It is the same sort of psychology behind why women still wrote love letters to a convicted killer on death row, his attractiveness. It isn't personal, its human nature and human desire and how it alters our judgement on how we see people and situations. Damonsgirl - all that was free. No need to file insurance. ....Moving on.
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Post by damonsgirl on May 14, 2015 17:15:11 GMT -5
I guess we will see @pullingmypigtails, but I hoping for more Dalaric scenes, once Alaric apologises to Damon of course.That is sarcasm, I hope. So you claim you dont judge a characters actions, but in one fail swoop feel Alaric needs to apologize to Damon? I get it now...it all revolves around Damon, because the deeper psychology here is the basic you find him attractive and want to sleep with him. It doesn't matter what his actions are, he is to sympathized with and babied and everyone else owes him. Don't hold your breath for that Dalaric apology...rumor has it Matt Davis is gone, took a gig on another show. And to the point of showrunners and promotions, yes there is plenty of showrunners going on twitter to promote their show, do q&a of that like... but what crosses the line is when they are only promoting ships or not the show, or fishing for story ideas. Directors especially, who are actually supposed to be the objective overseer of the story, shouldn't be doing that. But where TVD writers fail is that they actually take ideas from fans hashtags and fan fiction to flesh out their stories. THAT is EXTREMELY unprofessional and the antithesis of what solid storytelling is. A good creative writer knows and what they should have already learned is, you never give the audience what they want, you give them what they need. Which is one of the main reason TVD keeps sinking even further in the ratings (just poor storytelling and pure fan service) while shows like Supernatural still maintain their audience number for 10 years because they have always stayed true to their original concept and story arcs. You know, for someone who professes to champion women, you do a damn good job of judging women that you don't know. Your amateur psychoanalysis of my posts are so far the mark that I am embarrassed for you, considering your pro women posts. Not everyone judges characterization on the actors looks, it goes far beyond that for me. Your comments feel more like you are projecting. You clearly have an agenda, and want a soap box to vent your views about this show that you hate now, and for that reason, and the fact that you have turned this debate personal, I have decided not to engage further.
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Post by crimmyj on May 14, 2015 17:26:17 GMT -5
That is sarcasm, I hope. So you claim you dont judge a characters actions, but in one fail swoop feel Alaric needs to apologize to Damon? I get it now...it all revolves around Damon, because the deeper psychology here is the basic you find him attractive and want to sleep with him. It doesn't matter what his actions are, he is to sympathized with and babied and everyone else owes him. Don't hold your breath for that Dalaric apology...rumor has it Matt Davis is gone, took a gig on another show. And to the point of showrunners and promotions, yes there is plenty of showrunners going on twitter to promote their show, do q&a of that like... but what crosses the line is when they are only promoting ships or not the show, or fishing for story ideas. Directors especially, who are actually supposed to be the objective overseer of the story, shouldn't be doing that. But where TVD writers fail is that they actually take ideas from fans hashtags and fan fiction to flesh out their stories. THAT is EXTREMELY unprofessional and the antithesis of what solid storytelling is. A good creative writer knows and what they should have already learned is, you never give the audience what they want, you give them what they need. Which is one of the main reason TVD keeps sinking even further in the ratings (just poor storytelling and pure fan service) while shows like Supernatural still maintain their audience number for 10 years because they have always stayed true to their original concept and story arcs. You know, for someone who professes to champion women, you do a damn good job of judging women that you don't know. Your amateur psychoanalysis of my posts are so far the mark that I am embarrassed for you, considering your pro women posts. Not everyone judges characterization on the actors looks, it goes far beyond that for me. Your comments feel more like you are projecting. You clearly have an agenda, and want a soap box to vent your views about this show that you hate now, and for that reason, and the fact that you have turned this debate personal, I have decided not to engage further. Yes, your signature clearly shows that. My mistake.
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Post by jennifer on May 14, 2015 17:42:49 GMT -5
I don't believe damonsgirl was broaching the topic of rape (please correct me if I am wrong damonsgirl) - she was talking generally about viewing a show depicting murderous vampires and searching for morality (selectively at that) within that very debatable venue. The strawman argument then lies with narrowing it down to one single objection that many view as non-existent in the show and whitewashing the rest of the egregious actions as non-applicable. Damonsgirl, what are you expecting next season. Will it satiate your need for entertainment based on fantasy? I guess we will see @pullingmypigtails, but I hoping for more Dalaric scenes, once Alaric apologises to Damon of course. What does Alaric need to apologize for? I'm drawing a blank.
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Post by Ruby on May 14, 2015 17:43:01 GMT -5
You know, for someone who professes to champion women, you do a damn good job of judging women that you don't know. Your amateur psychoanalysis of my posts are so far the mark that I am embarrassed for you, considering your pro women posts. Not everyone judges characterization on the actors looks, it goes far beyond that for me. Your comments feel more like you are projecting. You clearly have an agenda, and want a soap box to vent your views about this show that you hate now, and for that reason, and the fact that you have turned this debate personal, I have decided not to engage further. Yes, your signature clearly shows that. My mistake. Hey I made that signature lol…kind of hahah btw I have no problem with you guys going back and fourth regarding the show but please do not make the debates personal…
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Post by damonsgirl on May 14, 2015 17:58:41 GMT -5
Yes, your signature clearly shows that. My mistake. Hey I made that signature lol…kind of hahah btw I have no problem with you guys going back and fourth regarding the show but please do not make the debates personal… Yes you did Ruby, I remember it well back when I was a noobie poster here, and it is awesome. There is nothing wrong with my signature, it depicts Damon as I enjoy him, and I won't apologize for loving him as a fictional character, and all that he is. He is a character to celebrate and I take issue with those who judge my "real" character for doing so. I left school 25 yrs ago.
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Post by Ruby on May 14, 2015 18:06:41 GMT -5
I agree I feel Damon has come a long way from the original Damon…I feel that this episode will celebrate both the somewhat redemption of Damon and Elena well if my theory on whats going to happen is correct =D
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Post by deb on May 14, 2015 18:15:41 GMT -5
I agree I feel Damon has come a long way from the original Damon…I feel that this episode will celebrate both the somewhat redemption of Damon and Elena well if my theory on whats going to happen is correct =D And, what's your theory about the finale, Ruby? I'm curious
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Post by Ruby on May 14, 2015 18:19:09 GMT -5
Elena will be cursed by a spell Kai puts on her and it will cause the group to make the decision on how it is handled. Everyone will visit elena in her mind where she is still alive and she is telling them to let her go because whatever it is, is more important. Im thinking she will be linked to bonnie or something. So Elena will give up her life for that issue (showing Elena redeeming herself because of her selflessness) and Damon will respect Elena's choice (Showing him respecting Elena's choice) something like that lol deb
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Post by damonsgirl on May 14, 2015 18:20:10 GMT -5
I guess we will see @pullingmypigtails, but I hoping for more Dalaric scenes, once Alaric apologises to Damon of course. What does Alaric need to apologize for? I'm drawing a blank. Preventing and guilt tripping Damon into NOT killing Kai. Jo, and most probably Elena are dead because he thought he knew best. No biggie.
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Post by Ruby on May 14, 2015 18:29:17 GMT -5
What does Alaric need to apologize for? I'm drawing a blank. Preventing and guilt tripping Damon into NOT killing Kai. Jo, and most probably Elena are dead because he thought he knew best. No biggie. What was the reason for Alaric not wanting to kill Kai again? I can't remember..or was it just because he was Jo's brother
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