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Post by damonsgirl on May 16, 2015 20:12:44 GMT -5
Sure, I would love to see where Damon made any amends and/or apologies for 1. Matt/Vicki 2. Caroline (Season 1) 3. Lexi 4. Stefan, you know, going after his girldfriend and all.... I would love to see those. See, this isn't what you asked in your original post. You asked when has Damon EVER apologized to anyone, and I gave you a reasonable answer, and now you are splitting hairs. Damon may not have directly apologized for everything he did but he has made amends with some of them by saving their lives. Lots of these people have good reason to dislike Damon, but they have also very good reason to thank him. It is no surprise to me that Damon has amassed more friendships in MF than Stefan, because ultimately he is loyal to his friends, and he has proven that, even if they are ungrateful. The likes of Enzo, Tyler, Alaric and Stefan would not even be here if not for him and Bonnie. Lexie could have been saved also, but she died a hero too. Her choice.
How funny that you bring Stefan into the mix. That is the crux of the matter. You think Damon should apologize for stealing Stefan's girl? Not gonna happen. Elena loves Damon fair and square, and no amount of blaming Damon for that will change how Elena Gilbert feels for Damon. Elena fell for Damon, and that happened because SHE let it, because ultimately Damon was her choice. He never forced her to love him, she just did. No amount of Damon chasing her should have changed how she felt about Stefan if it was meant to be. I'ts funny actually, because ever since 2x08, Damon was the biggest SE shipper going.
SE just wasn't built to last. They survived lots, but they couldn't survive a species change. DE survived everything that was thrown at them from Sire bonds, doppelganger curses, ripper viruses, body jacking, death, and even memory wipes. True love conquered all, and I don't see why Damon should apologize for that.
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shoe20
Team Stefan
Posts: 1,739
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Post by shoe20 on May 16, 2015 21:20:47 GMT -5
Sure, I would love to see where Damon made any amends and/or apologies for 1. Matt/Vicki 2. Caroline (Season 1) 3. Lexi 4. Stefan, you know, going after his girldfriend and all.... I would love to see those. See, this isn't what you asked in your original post. You asked when has Damon EVER apologized to anyone, and I gave you a reasonable answer, and now you are splitting hairs. Damon may not have directly apologized for everything he did but he has made amends with some of them by saving their lives. Lots of these people have good reason to dislike Damon, but they have also very good reason to thank him. It is no surprise to me that Damon has amassed more friendships in MF than Stefan, because ultimately he is loyal to his friends, and he has proven that, even if they are ungrateful. The likes of Enzo, Tyler, Alaric and Stefan would not even be here if not for him and Bonnie. Lexie could have been saved also, but she died a hero too. Her choice.
How funny that you bring Stefan into the mix. That is the crux of the matter. You think Damon should apologize for stealing Stefan's girl? Not gonna happen. Elena loves Damon fair and square, and no amount of blaming Damon for that will change how Elena Gilbert feels for Damon. Elena fell for Damon, and that happened because SHE let it, because ultimately Damon was her choice. He never forced her to love him, she just did. No amount of Damon chasing her should have changed how she felt about Stefan if it was meant to be. I'ts funny actually, because ever since 2x08, Damon was the biggest SE shipper going.
SE just wasn't built to last. They survived lots, but they couldn't survive a species change. DE survived everything that was thrown at them from Sire bonds, doppelganger curses, ripper viruses, body jacking, death, and even memory wipes. True love conquered all, and I don't see why Damon should apologize for that.
Sry damonsgirl, but I don't buy a word of it... Damon has always been a dick and still is.... Didn't Enzo just call him out on being selfish and leaving him to burn..... That's what I heard. I won't debate who Vamplena should be with, because I would never want her back with Stefan.... What do you mean Elena fell for Damon as a vamp... she was sired to him, she had no choice.... I can't believe the show runners want to promote such a toxic codependent relationship ( and that's with his own words) Even after Damon got the girl he was off on the weekends to kill innocents... There's still his involvement in Jeremy's torture that Damon doesn't think Elena needs to know about last season, he's very careful to only give her the info that puts him in a good light, and always has been. I know your a Damon fan, but to me he represents everything I dislike in a male. What turns me off most is his insecurity, he's just way to needy.
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Post by Ruby on May 17, 2015 8:40:28 GMT -5
And about SE not being built to last. The only reasonn there was room for Elena to even consider having feelings for Damon even as a human was because of Stefan. If Stefan would have never sacrificed himself over to Klaus for Damon to survive the werewolf bite, I believe Elena would have still been with stefan.
But like in life, everything happens for a reason and I guess they all were better off.
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Post by damonsgirl on May 17, 2015 10:06:35 GMT -5
And about SE not being built to last. The only reasonn there was room for Elena to even consider having feelings for Damon even as a human was because of Stefan. If Stefan would have never sacrificed himself over to Klaus for Damon to survive the werewolf bite, I believe Elena would have still been with stefan. But like in life, everything happens for a reason and I guess they all were better off. Hi Ruby, It will come as no surprise that I don't subscribe to that view, especially when you look at the whole bigger picture, across all 6 seasons.. Elena was falling for Damon all along, by the time he was on his death bed, her feelings had already grown substantially, and by S3x01, she knew that she loved him, and could see loving him forever. Elena fell in love with Damon, not because of Stefan, but because Damon, and everything he had come to mean to her, she fell in love with him despite loving Stefan. 6x22 confirmed things that I have argued time an again. I will always be grateful that Stefan saved Damon in 2x22, but he always had a greater NEED for his brother than he did for Elena, so I never viewed his actions as entirely selfless, and my opinion on this has only been reinforced by writing in later seasons. In this moment (2x22), Stefan chose Damon above a life with Elena, because he knew that giving into the bloodlust and turning Ripper may mean decades of rehabilitation for him, time that Elena doesn't have. (even if this was all retconned after, when Stefan seemed to be cured of his ripperism in record time). Time and again the writers have been telling us that Damon means more to Stefan than anyone, including his supposed "soulmate", starting with Stefan forcing him to turn in the first place. Elena knew this, she knew that she wouldn't be the one to save Stefan from himself, it would be Damon, and It was. Damon loves Stefan, but he doesn't NEED him in the same way, as he loves and needs Elena. Damon would give up an eternity with his brother, for a life with Elena, that is the difference, and for me that is what true love with a partner is. So yes, I guess all this did happen for a reason, and perhaps in the long run Stefan will be better off. He needs to find someone that he can envision a life with, more than a life with Damon by his side as his priority. Perhaps Caroline will the one that does that for him.
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Post by demetra on May 17, 2015 10:51:39 GMT -5
And about SE not being built to last. The only reasonn there was room for Elena to even consider having feelings for Damon even as a human was because of Stefan. If Stefan would have never sacrificed himself over to Klaus for Damon to survive the werewolf bite, I believe Elena would have still been with stefan. But like in life, everything happens for a reason and I guess they all were better off. Hi Ruby, It will come as no surprise that I don't subscribe to that view, especially when you look at the whole bigger picture, across all 6 seasons.. Elena was falling for Damon all along, by the time he was on his death bed, her feelings had already grown substantially, and by S3x01, she knew that she loved him, and could see loving him forever. Elena fell in love with Damon, not because of Stefan, but because Damon, and everything he had come to mean to her, she fell in love with him despite loving Stefan. 6x22 confirmed things that I have argued time an again. I will always be grateful that Stefan saved Damon in 2x22, but he always had a greater NEED for his brother than he did for Elena, so I never viewed his actions as entirely selfless, and my opinion on this has only been reinforced by writing in later seasons. In this moment (2x22), Stefan chose Damon above a life with Elena, because he knew that giving into the bloodlust and turning Ripper may mean decades of rehabilitation for him, time that Elena doesn't have. (even if this was all retconned after, when Stefan seemed to be cured of his ripperism in record time). Time and again the writers have been telling us that Damon means more to Stefan than anyone, including his supposed "soulmate", starting with Stefan forcing him to turn in the first place. Elena knew this, she knew that she wouldn't be the one to save Stefan from himself, it would be Damon, and It was. Damon loves Stefan, but he doesn't NEED him in the same way, as he loves and needs Elena. Damon would give up an eternity with his brother, for a life with Elena, that is the difference, and for me that is what true love with a partner is. So yes, I guess all this did happen for a reason, and perhaps in the long run Stefan will be better off. He needs to find someone that he can envision a life with, more than a life with Damon by his side as his priority. Perhaps Caroline will the one that does that for him. Very well argued. Strong rationale. The thing about shipping is: we each perceive a different logic. One makes sense to Stelenas, and support their feels, and the other makes sense to Delenas, and supports their feels. It comes down to which actors you like paired, IMHO, and our logics are mutually exclusive. I acknowledge your rationale. Nonetheless as a Stelena I cannot be convinced by your case -- as I cannot convince you with mine. You prefer Damon as Elena's partner, I prefer Stefan. It won't change for me because I fell for the Stefan and Elena put forward in the pilot. That all being said, I am interested in the exposition of both Salvatore brothers. What irks me -- this is likely my failing -- is that Damon has to overcome his essential character to be "worthy" of Elena. Whereas, to me, Stefan had already made that journey to overcome the ripper before he met Elena. So, while seeming to be weaker, he had already prepared himself to be her partner. He fell off the wagon under extraordinary circumstances -- and each time, except for the last, when he was tricked into it by Damon (speeding up decades of rehab), Stefan had to find his way back to himself as his own choice. None of my positioning or defense of Stefan will change the heart or mind of a Delena. I don't have a feeling of moral rightness that Stelena completed its cycle earlier, just I feel grateful that we already went thru what many Delenas are going thru -- and the worst is in the past.
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Post by fangfairy on May 17, 2015 12:29:55 GMT -5
demetraWith respect, I don't think DE fans are going through the same heartache SE fans must have been through. SE have had their love story and then it was over, when after season 3 of loving them both, Elena finally chose to be with Damon in 4x06. The couple we have rooted for over six seasons have become a couple, and regardless the problems they've had and all the cruel obstacles thrown in their way, they've become only stronger and more committed to one another, to the point of planning to stay forever as vampires, then until the last breath they would take as humans. Their love story is not over, it's only suspended, due to the circumstances of Nina leaving and the show carrying on. Our heartache is for Damon having to live without Elena for the foreseeable future. What is interesting about shipping, is to explore the main pull behind it. Is it a love for one of the characters or is it a love for both, or is it simply the way they love each other what appeals. That's why some SE fans could move on to ship Stefan with Caroline,whilst others couldn't; that's why some initial SE fans ended up hating Elena and never wishing her to get back with Stefan. For me DE was always a straightforward ship: I loved both characters and I found their bond incredibly exciting and beautiful. I completely agree with you though, we will never change each other's minds.
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Post by demetra on May 17, 2015 14:05:20 GMT -5
Oh fangfairy, you are luxuriating in the certainty of Delena. Enjoy the certainty. Based on my own experience, all I can offer is: don't trust the show runners with your heart. Because if this runs into Season 8, they can take it all away. Every sweet moment, every experience you thought was inviolable and core to the relationship of Damon and Elena. And they are capable of doing it relentlessly and without care for what you thought was the heart of your ship. Every symbol of your love can be turned, stolen, revealed to be a spell or a compulsion, melted away. That's what may await in the next three years. And we'll be here to catch you if the fall from certainty comes. Because we had it all -- and they took it all away. He went for it, he came out of the shadows for it, he sacrificed his humanity for it, he gave up everything for it. And -- with no loyalty to that character -- they took it all away. They put words in the mouth of our hero, words we know he would never say. When even the lead actor says, I never thought it would end this way for Stefan and Elena, without any love between them --- then you know they cannot be trusted. Take this summer and crow with satisfaction: we were right, we are victorious. She is Sleeping Beauty, Damon is her Prince Charming. Enjoy. But I ask you: do not drop your guard. Because they've likely already figured out how to take it all back. They sleep lightly this hiatus. But be forewarned. They've already figured out how to f___ us all. LOL. Sorry for the dark mood, guys. It would seem I went to sleep during The Vampire Diaries and woke up to Game of Thrones.
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Post by tvdfansince1991 on May 17, 2015 14:16:41 GMT -5
Sorry Damonsgirl, you don't describe true "epic" love. You describe co-dependancy and obsessive compulsive behavior. Stefan is more of a grown up than Damon ever will be. Why? Because Stefan thinks outside of himself. Just because he chose to help Damon does not mean he loved Elena less than Damon does. It means that Stefan has evolved in a way Damon never will. Like I said before, Damon loves his brother and will protect his brother, as long as it doesn't involve Stefan being with Elena or choosing between the two in some fashion...you are right, he will always choose her over Stefan...and that is wrong. Again, that does not equal love, that equals a man that can't think away from his d**k. He was willing to hurt Stefan in order to be with Elena...they got together at Stefan's expense. With a bro like Damon, Stefan doesn't need enemies.
I don't subscribe to that kind of fantasy, not in TVD, my soaps, books or movies.
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Post by Ruby on May 17, 2015 14:55:27 GMT -5
Sorry Damonsgirl, you don't describe true "epic" love. You describe co-dependancy and obsessive compulsive behavior. Stefan is more of a grown up than Damon ever will be. Why? Because Stefan thinks outside of himself. Just because he chose to help Damon does not mean he loved Elena less than Damon does. It means that Stefan has evolved in a way Damon never will. Like I said before, Damon loves his brother and will protect his brother, as long as it doesn't involve Stefan being with Elena or choosing between the two in some fashion...you are right, he will always choose her over Stefan...and that is wrong. Again, that does not equal love, that equals a man that can't think away from his d**k. He was willing to hurt Stefan in order to be with Elena...they got together at Stefan's expense. With a bro like Damon, Stefan doesn't need enemies. I don't subscribe to that kind of fantasy, not in TVD, my soaps, books or movies. Please make sure when you are debating with someone you are being sensitive to the poster and that you are not making them feel their opinion is irrelevant. Make sure to include that your opinion is in fact your opinion and not the "right" way to think. Thanks Sent from my SM-G900T using proboards
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Post by fangfairy on May 17, 2015 15:13:02 GMT -5
Oh fangfairy, you are luxuriating in the certainty of Delena. Enjoy the certainty. Based on my own experience, all I can offer is: don't trust the show runners with your heart. Because if this runs into Season 8, they can take it all away. Every sweet moment, every experience you thought was inviolable and core to the relationship of Damon and Elena. And they are capable of doing it relentlessly and without care for what you thought was the heart of your ship. Every symbol of your love can be turned, stolen, revealed to be a spell or a compulsion, melted away. That's what may await in the next three years. And we'll be here to catch you if the fall from certsinty comes. Because we had it all -- and they took it all away. They put words in the mouth of our hero, words we know he would never say. He went for it, he came out of the shadows for it, he sacrificed his humanity for it, he gave up everything for it. And -- with no loyalty to that character -- they took it all away. When the lead actor says, I never thought it would end this way for Stefan and Elena, without even a hope of love between them --- then you know they cannot be trusted. Take this summer and crow with satisfaction: we were right, we are victorious. She is Sleeping Beauty, Damon is her Prince Charming. Enjoy. But I ask you: do not drop your guard. Because they've likely already figured out how to take it all back. They sleep lightly this hiatus. But be forewarned. They've already figured out how to f___ us all. LOL. Sorry for the dark mood, guys. I went to sleep during The Vampire Diaries and woke up to Game of Thrones. Demetra, I have no illusions about the writers of this show, trust me. But I also have no patience or tolerance for retcons. Whatever happens now to DE in the future, it will not take anything away from what they've had. At the moment of their final separation on the show that was out of their control, they were unconditionally in love with each other. If this is the end, this is the end. I'm sorry that you feel so hurt by the loss of SE and that the writers have taken a different turn with them from what you were hoping for. I'd say nothing that's happened since their breakdown and breakup should take anything away from what you've enjoyed about them as a couple. Even as a DE fan, I would never argue that Stefan and Elena loved each other very much and they've had a profound influence on each other's lives. But then they've drifted apart, and Elena has fallen for Damon. Would this have happened without the tragic circumstances under which Stefan had to sacrifice his life with Elena for the cure to save Damon? I expect so, but it's useless to speculate, as this part of the story has already been told. It surely sped things up for DE. I think both Elena and Stefan hold their memories of their love very dear to their hearts, and it's wonderful they've found a way to be friends once they were no longer in love, and despite the awkwardness of Elena falling in love with his brother.
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